Public Opinion: What fans have to say about Tampa Bay Lightning owner Jeff Vinik's early moves
by Cassie McClellan on Apr 13, 2010 9:00 AM EDT
in Lightning Franchise news
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PrintAt the end of last season, John did a poll asking people what they thought of Rick Tocchet as an interim coach. The results were rather favorable. I had my doubts at the time (see the comments), but the people had spoken.
A year later, I threw the quick question out there publicly of what people thought of the Brian Lawton and Rick Tocchet firings for fans to answer, and here are some of the responses that people shared. (Thanks to everyone who participated. Please feel free to leave you opinion in the comments below.)
VanCity Canuck:
The circus and all its monkeys have officially left the building.
Tina R.:
I'm not surprised at all. I expected as much, with a new owner coming in that he would want his own people to be put in place. What did surprise me is the speed with which it happened. But it was the best way to do things. Swift, decisive break and a clean slate for the new guy.
I'm not sure I can add anything new or refreshing that hasn't already been said by everyone else. I'm also not so sure the carnage is over either. It remains to be seen if the new coach wants to keep Oates (or does Oates even WANT to stay, since he originally came to Tampa as a favor to Tocchet?), Raeder or Wilson. I just hope they keep Nigel Kirwan and the training staff. No reason for them to suffer for the others' stupidity. I'm not sure Jim Johnson could be trusted by the players because he was looked at by Tocchet as a "Lawton stooge". Not sure that's fair, but still. I think Johnson is best left (at least for now) in Norfolk.
I'm just looking forward to some peace and quiet with the Lightning next season. A little bit o' calm after the circus left town.
Ryan M. (Silver Seven):
Katerina B.:
Wins I give credit to Tocchet for developing Steve Downie and Steven Stamkos. Though, I can't forgive him the way he treated Vincent Lecavalier. I'm not saying that he is solely responsible for Vinny's decline in scoring, yet I feel that he had definitely some impact on it. And as I said on the Raw Charge before... the way he's been mixing up the lines constantly, that is what I never understood and never will.
So, I'm more than positive about the firing of Tocchet. As to Lawton... He might seem like a good guy, but I've never really trusted him and I believe he was trying to trade Vinny last year. One thing I can't accept. For me, he looked pretty sneaky and never gained my trust. So once again, more than positive about this too.
DontTradeVinny (Don't Trade Vinny):
If Steve Yzerman ends up involved in this team in any way, I will personally buy a plane ticket to Tampa, and buy Jeff Vinik a drink.
Dani M.:
I feel that Lawton's firing was imminent and necessary, but Tocchet's questionable. Most of the success of Stamkos and Downie can be directly credited to Tocchet. We have never had such a close knit group and I would go as far as saying that is Tocchet`s doing, as well. I am incredibly impressed with Vinik, though, for addressing the fans directly by a letter on the Lightning website. We've never had an owner so interested in this team and keeping its fans happy.
Brian O.:
My sentiments are the same, getting rid of Lawton was absolutely necessary and I guess to move past the Cowboy Error...err Era, then Tocchet had to go too. I am of the opinion though that it should have been up to the new CEO and/or GM to decide Rick's fate. Steve Downie's progress this year is one of the few great stories of the season and that is... See more a direct effect of Tocchet. Now the head coach has to do a lot more then develop one player, but I thought Rick was, and still is, a great young coach and he did what he could with the personnel that he was given. It'll be truly sad if they pass on an upcoming coach like Tocchet in favor of a re-tread like Hitchcock or someone of the like.
A clean slate is certainly welcome though let's just hope that this time it turns out better! Go Bolts!
George R. (via Facebook):
I hope it's not deja vu all over again, with a new coach wanting to make wholesale changes and bring in "his" players. Thus, putting the playoffs further down the road while the team develops. The Bolts need to make some strides fast, or they will lose more fans. Hopefully Mr. Vinik chooses wisely.
Kevin C. (via Facebook):
What this team needs now is experienced, veteran leadership from the CEO position on down. Vinik should bring in real hockey people to run this team. If he can bring stability and experience to the front office and bench we should see further improvement. The new guys need to spend wisely in free agency and be ready to move Vinny if the opportunity arises.A priority should be looking ahead to the finances needed to re-sign Stamkos and Martin St. Louis.
Could we move Vinny for a real starting goaltender? That contract is going to make it tough.
The front office guys have to have the NHL knowledge to fill the holes in our roster and protect the future assets of this franchise at the same time. This is not going to be an easy task- we've got some big holes.
Chad S. (Bolts Prospects):
I think letting go of Lawton and Tocchet was the right move in this situation. You can look at the individuals and argue that both have reasons to remain, but it doesn't matter -- the big picture reigns in this situation. Vinik has to build this organizational model at every level. I'm looking forward to not only stability, but prolonged stability in the organization. It will be refreshing to see things being done the right way - from the top right on down through Norfolk and hopefully an ECHL affiliate. That's the way successful, truly professional teams operate, and if there's anything that stands out on Vinik's resume, it's doing things thoroughly, professionally, and with success.
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I must correct the spelling of a name in my quote...
Not Cassie’s fault, but mine in the quote I didn’t verify it before I wrote what I did, but the correct spelling of the name is “Nigel Kirwan”. Sorry Nigel…My bad!
And as for this, I think we are all in agreement…let’s have a good summer and move on to the new season and look for better things to come.
Is it October yet?
I have come to a conclusion... Martin St Louis = waterbug on meth...
Fixed it. Thanks for pointing that out, Tina. I should’ve looked that up but didn’t.
There's nothing quite like the sound of a frozen puck hitting the glass. It makes me happy.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community.
by Cassie McClellan on Apr 13, 2010 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Not a problem. I also fixed it before I put it in my fanpost as well.
I have come to a conclusion... Martin St Louis = waterbug on meth...
by Tina Robinson on Apr 14, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s two things I’m starting to not understand:
1) The sudden (if relative) loving for Tocchet
2) The timing
Tocchet couldn’t coach the Bolts to the top of the local Under-10 league, so why is Lawton getting all the grief? If Tocchet is (as it appears) allowed to be passed over when it comes to the blame because of two good things – progression of Downie and Stamkos, and I’m not convinced about the latter – it’s not difficult to counter with good moves by Lawton (since the 24th June, when the shakles were removed):
- Signing Antero Niitymakki (so cheaply, too)
- Signing Kurtis Foster (so cheaply, too)
- A pretty good draft (novel, I know!)
- Doing very little at the Trade Deadline (come on, admit it, the team was cooked… why give up anything for the chance of a 4 game playoff series in which we’d be embarrassed? This isn’t pre-1996)
The failure with this team not reaching the playoffs has not been the quality of players – sure, they’d never get far in the playoffs, but the group is playoff calibre. The complete inability for the team to play either together as a single entity, or even defensively responsible is the reason we’re having this discussion now. How much of that can be pinned on Lawton?
None of this is to say Lawton is the best GM and we’ve made some kind of catastrophic failure – it’s fully understandable Vinik would want a guy he could trust, not someone perceived as being OK’s puppet (rightly or wrongly), but that’s why I think he’s got such a bad rep…
As for the timing – why now? Sure, the season was over (barely 14 hours as of the news first breaking), but what was the harm in doing it earlier? Disruption for the players is the one reason I can think of……. but we were going nowhere, so what’s the difference? Was anybody else worthy of being an Interim coach? Maybe not, but why drag things out any longer than they need to?
Drifting slowly, lower and lower, until we reach the front row in Los Angeles come June...
by taiter42 on Apr 13, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
RE: Tocchet
Thus why I wrote the post “”http://www.rawcharge.com/2010/4/2/1402523/tocchet-is-not-the-victim" >Tocchet is not the Victim"… With all of the dreadful stretches for the Lightning, all the inconsistency and underperforming… He was being forgiven because mean-old-Lawton fired his buddy… Or at least that is what it looked like from how the media was presenting it.
And the media memo of “Tocchet is a nice guy, in a tough position” carries over with the fans.
Meanwhile, Lawton was in a tough position and isnt getting the same benefit-of-the-doubt treatment. Just as well, if they (the team) are going to start from zero — both guy sshould have been sent walking with no hold-overs from OK (Not Really) Hockey.
"Seen Cincuenta" -- 04.10.10 Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Apr 13, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
This whole situation reminds me a lot of the critisism Vinny was receiving for lack of production early in the season, whilst Marty was almost as quiet and nobody mentioned a thing…
As you pointed out though, it was the right move (wouldn’t be against the majority of the coaching staff going, either) and Tocchet may just get another chance coaching somewhere else as a result of the way it’s being reported… you aside, naturally!
Drifting slowly, lower and lower, until we reach the front row in Los Angeles come June...
Great analogy
Vinny to Marty as Lawton to Tocchet. One is the villain, the other forgiven.
"Seen Cincuenta" -- 04.10.10 Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Apr 13, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Correct link
http://www.rawcharge.com/2010/4/2/1402523/tocchet-is-not-the-victim
"Seen Cincuenta" -- 04.10.10 Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Apr 13, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Completely agreed on Tocchet, I also don’t see how the progression of two high picks (guys who have enough talent to progress anyway) can hide the problems the team had.
If you look at the roster – just the names – there’s no way this team finishes 25th. The statements that he “did what he could with the players he was given” are absolutely false if you look at it this way. Of course there are problems with how the roster is built and that’s not Tocchet’s fault, but there’s just too much quality there for a finish like that.
As for the timing, firing them right after the season is probably the classiest and least-hassle way to do it in my mind.
Are you implying the words “Class” and “Tocchet” belong in the same sentance!?
Guess it goes to show how different the NHL is to the soccer leagues over here, where managers get sacked at any time
Drifting slowly, lower and lower, until we reach the front row in Los Angeles come June...
Well, if you’re going to bring in a new, professional way of doing business then why not start with the way you remove the old people? Firing them earlier wouldn’t have changed anything so why go for the distraction?
All in all, with the clowns that the earlier ownership were, keeping a classy image is now more important than ever for a new guy. I’m not saying that firing them earlier would have been wrong, but this just looks better in my opinion. The way Vinik stressed that the CEO was going to hire the GM and the GM was going to hire the coach is part of this too – signaling that there’s no more owner meddling and that they will institute a clear chain of command.
Also, while NHL managers also get sacked at any time, the role of the manager, the league systems and the contract and transfer rules of soccer are so different that there may be more times when the change can make a real difference.
I should have learned by now that my sarcasm doesn’t come across in these posts… all well made points though, none the less
Why isn't it October yet?
Quality? I understand that we should score quite a few goals, but I’ve never seen worse defense even the last two seasons when we finished 29th and 30th. We lack offensive defensemen and defensive forwards, which in turn gets us trapped in our zone for way longer then necessary. If I had a nickel for every time I cursed at a d-man for going up to the blueline then turning back and passing behind his own net I would be rich right now!
The defense core looked like a bunch of keystone cops, I don’t care who is coaching them those “names” aren’t worth spit.
by NingDynasty on Apr 13, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Defense has other ingredients than the names on the back of the jerseys. You think they’re so bad that the coaching doesn’t matter, I think they’re so bad because they don’t have a system that supports them. Looking like a bunch of keystone cops has a lot to do with not knowing what to do because of that lack of system.
You look at some of the quality defensive systems in this league and they make the Sheldon Brookbanks, Shane Hnidys and Steve Montadors of the world look like d-men who can hold their own in this league no problem. Or the Kim Johnssons and Francois Beauchemins look like all-stars. Meanwhile, only the very best are able to thrive without support.
by Malurous on Apr 13, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I watched Ohlund play many years in Vancouver, and this season I didn’t even recognize the guy. He was practically invisible. He’s obviously a good defenseman – has been one of the better ones for years in the NHL – but this season he was not typical for him. I definitely blame the coaching for the awful defense, not so much the defensemen themselves.
There's nothing quite like the sound of a frozen puck hitting the glass. It makes me happy.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community.
by Cassie McClellan on Apr 13, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Rec'd
This is true with all sports. I’m told by some that it’s never coaching’s fault, it’s always players. That’s as much bullspit as “those names” sentiment suggested. A coach is involved in tactics and unit play. It’s not the names on the back of jersey’s that make all the difference. It’s the defensive schemes and requirements set forth by coaching that sets the standard.
you watch television – and this is going to be highlighted even more with draft prospects coming out – and you get the impression it’s all TALENT. Screw the scheme, forget the small intangibles. It’s all about the talent that someone has or the lack-there-of.
You have to have talent to play the game, and some do have more talent than others… Coaching — good cvoaching and involved coaching — brings out the best in everyone.
"Seen Cincuenta" -- 04.10.10 Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Apr 13, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Jeff Vinik did the right thing by firing Brian Lawton and Rick Tocchet, it was long overdue! Now if he would just take a look at the goaltending issue and get rid of Mike Smith for a real goal tender, we might actually have a shot next year at the playoffs. It has to be really depressing for the players to work their hearts and asses off to try to win a game when their so called goal tender Mike Smith can’t stop the puck if it was sitting right on top of him! You could ride a bus through his 5 hole. I hope Mr. Vinik doesn’t just stop with management but cleans house on some of the mediocre players like our defense..i.e, Meszaros etc. We have a powerhouse of forwards but we don’t have one defensemen that can lug the puck out of their own end. It might be due to Tocchets style but his record speaks for himself. I’ve been watching hockey for 25 yrs and have gone to many, many games and it is depressing to me to watch my home team lose all the time!
Mr Vinik has already made it very clear several times....
that he will not get directly involved in player personnel issues. His first step is to hire the CEO who will then hire the new GM. They together (from my understanding) will then hire the coach. Mr. Vinik’s part is to sit back and watch things develop, not get involved in player personnel decisions. The last guys that owned the team tried that, remember? It didn’t work out well at all. The owner needs to stay out of the way and sign the paychecks. Let the hockey people do their jobs. (which is what Mr. Vinik has said he intends to do).
I have come to a conclusion... Martin St Louis = waterbug on meth...
Don’t understand the sensfan criticizing Lawton for using Twitter or for picking Ashton. We got our guy too there, ya know.
Anyway, both had to go to get rid of the stench of OK hockey & the many, many things they screwed up. Funny how the same people that were ecstatic to see them come in because they’d make trades (woohoo!) instead of plodding along like Feaster are the first ones happy to see them go too.
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