Game 33: Tampa Bay Lightning at San Jose Sharks

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 9:01 AM EST in '11-'12 game recaps

The Bucs lost to the 49ers 7-2. Wait. That doesn't seem right. Let me try that again....

Okay, the Tampa Bay Lightning lost to the San Jose Sharks 7-2.

Admittedly, I did not watch this game. Likely, not many on the East Coast did as it was a 10:30 pm start for us. And, after looking at the score, that's probably for the best. This didn't look like it was very pretty.

First, the good news. Or, at least, the better news. I sort of it see it as a mixed bag myself, but...Martin St. Louis played in this game, only 13 days after getting struck in the face with an errant puck. He has a broken nose and a cracked orbital bone, but he was also wearing a full cage on his helmet, a la Steven Stamkos during playoffs.

It is expected that he will keep that full cage on for about a month to let his face heal. No word just yet if he's planning on putting on a visor or not when it comes off. Apparently, his eye - which had had a blood clot in it that has since disappeared - was good enough to see out of to play. His vision had been reported as being cloudy.

The bad news is that the Sharks scored five goals in the first period, chasing Mathieu Garon was chased out of the net after the third goal, playing only 6:21. He was the losing goaltender of record for the game, despite only playing one-tenth of it. Dwayne Roloson came in, and allowed two more goals in the following 8:26, and then another two in the third period.

Obviously, not a good night for the goalies - or, I'm assuming, the defense as well. The Lightning managed a goal-free second period both defensively and offensively. But, as head coach Guy Boucher said after the game, by then, it was already too late.

Dominic Moore scored a goal towards the end of the first period, and St. Louis scored halfway through the third.

Lightning game stats of interest: Moore was 7 of 9 (78%) in the faceoff circle, but the team only won 43% of their total faceoffs. They were outshot 43-24, but the shots were pretty well distributed amongst all of the players for the Lightning; four had three shots on goal each, and three had two shots each. Despite having had seven goals scored on them, no one was worse than a -2 on the night - and only two of those goals came while the Lightning were down a man on the penalty kill. Even blocked shots and hits were generally well distributed among everyone.

All in all, looking the statistics over, it could have been worse, even with being out-scored by five goals. A lot worse, actually. There was no one particular player or group of players that were particularly awful. This was an entire team effort that just did not work. To put it simply, they didn't have a bad game; they were just out-matched - especially in the first period. And, also likely, this stupid luck of theirs this season has continued.

But then, the Lightning also just do not play very well on the West Coast, for whatever reason.

Their next game is at the Colorado Avalanche on Friday, 23 December. Game time is 9 pm Eastern. The Raw Charge game thread will open up at 8:30 pm. Come join us.

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Comments

Why did the Lightning spot the Sharks 5 goals before deciding to play? They do realize they’re not playing Bantam or Squirts anymore, right?

I stayed awake to watch the first period—though I’m not exactly sure why at this point.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 9:39 AM EST reply actions

I’m glad I missed it. I’m an insomniac, anyways, so I stay up plenty for no reason as it is. They don’t play well on the West Coast, anyways, so I was pretty sure I wasn’t going to miss anything when I went to sleep at my regular time last night.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 10:03 AM EST up reply actions

Lucky you. Sights like last night’s first period can’t be unseen.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions

Defense.

Something needs to be done. If were holding players accountable… why are Hedman and Kubina not riding the pine pony? Look at the majority of our goals against and who happens to be there or not, every time.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 9:46 AM EST reply actions

Hedman and Kubina?

Do you mean Clark and Kubina? Hedman has probably been our best defender this year. Or are you just talking about last night?

And the answer is that we don’t have any good defensemen to replace them.

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions

There really aren’t any defensemen in Norfolk that can they can bring up who’ll be successful at the NHL level immediately. That’s why Oberg’s the lucky guy they’ve been yo-yoing back and forth – he was just traded to the Lightning a few weeks ago and that’s really all they’ve got for depth. The only way the defense gets better is thru another trade or two – which also means giving up what little depth they have on offense. But since many teams in the NHL are looking for good defensemen…well, good luck with that.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions

Both

Regardless of pairings. Hedman has been our best defender all year? If that’s at all true, then maybe that’s the problem. Sick of watching him waste his talent and size. Same crap with Ericsson in Detroit, only not as noticeable, for obvious reasons.

Unfortunately, at this point, it’s looking more and more like some type of trade will be necessary.. the question is just who and when?

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions

To answer your question (last sentence), who: anyone outside of the Big 3; when: now would be a good time.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions

can you think of anyone who's defended better than Hedman this year?

he’s improving. and he’s our best right now. that doesn’t say a lot about our defense, but it’s our lot right now.

I’m not sure what we need to trade for at this point. Either a top four defenseman or a goalie, but which one is the priority? Hell if I know. And more importantly, who can we give up to get one of the two? I’ve got no idea.

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions

can you think of anyone who’s defended better than Hedman this year?

Well, there’s—-oh wait, you mean someone on the Lightning? Then no.

Honestly, just take a look at Corey’s analysis. Hadman’s playing a lot of minutes against tough competition (high Corsi Rel QoC) and being effective at pushing the play out of the defensive zone (positive Relative Corsi (that’s the big blue bubble)). That’s pretty good, all things considered.

The problem the team is facing here is that anyone they trade for before the middle to end of Feb is going to be overpriced and underproductive, so SY has to wait until someone that he believes will really help is available at a price that doesn’t mortgage the next several seasons for the rest of this one.

R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
Rakastan suuria Maalivahdit Skandinaviasta

by CAustin on Dec 22, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions

and that might not happen

we might just be waiting out Roloson and Kubina’s contracts and trying to improve in free agency. and why can’t Ohlund’s contract come off the books too?

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions

And if you really

Want to be honest we are paying top five money to someone who is quickly slipping out of the top 100 players in the league. And no I’m definitely not talking about Stamkos. If there were only a way to free up that 7+ million a year.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions

Vinny doesn't look like he's doing much

until you see us try to play without him (see: last November). Or watch the playoffs.

And hey, at least he’s not Eric Staal

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions

As someone who has been rather critical of Vinny, since ‘04. I’ve been pretty impressed with him lately, mainly since Yzerman came aboard. For the first time, in a long time.. looks like he cares again. As I should sure freaking hope so.. after all, Steve is The Captain. Not to mention, one of Vinny’s favorite players growing up.

Like Yzerman had to change his game, when he played. I think Vinny has finally found his current role on the team. Will hopefully continue to do so, as it couldn’t be a better time for it.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions

Watch the replays from last night and most games. Who’s always the one standing there, not playing the man, not going for the puck? Always late and never physical? Hedman or Kubina. At least Heds has the actual ability to make it there first, Kubi’s problem is more of a age thing, from what I can tell.

Their is just no fire, no urgency. Just “oh well, that’s another one, hope somebody makes up for it.”

At some point, players have to stand up for themselves. Only so much yelling and skating a coach can give a team before it has to click on the other end. For example..Washington. (by no way am I attempting to compare the teams, eww) Just saying… talent can only go so far. You(they) have to want it.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions

Brewer’s a much better defenseman than Hedman is. Hedman’s still learning, so he’ll eventually be much better than Brewer. But Hedman’s still a pretty shaky in the neutral zone in particular.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions

Not true

He may be more physical when he wants to be, but not a better defenseman. Actually the way he has been playing the past couple of months I’m starting to see why the Blues felt it was time to move on from their captain.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions

Brewer is a -7, while Hedman’s a -11 right now.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions

And Brewer is out

There on every Bolt power play, which does factor into + and – , even with a power play as anemic as the Bolts.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions

By the way

Those +- figures are for what we regard as our top two defensemen, and why is it you don’t want to see a change.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions

nobody said they don't want to see a change

they said we don’t have anybody in Norfolk who can help right now. big, big difference

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions

I guarantee that if

Most of these guys weren’t locked in to 2,3 and 4 million dollar contracts there would be a different view as to whether there was someone at Norfolk that could help.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions

what?

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Essplain yourself

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions

Simple, you don't pay Kubina

3.5 million a year to play for the Admirals. YOu just hold on and hope he may one day earn some of that money before the contract expires or you are able to unload him. I refuse to believe Barberio or Gudas or Oberg wouldn’t be some upgrade over that tortoise.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions

if we thought Kubina was worse than Gudas and Oberg, we would buy him out

there’s no reason for him to finish out a terrible contract other than we think he’s better than the other options. Carolina healthy scratched Kaberle a couple times before they traded him

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah right

And I’m sure there wasn’t a deal in the works when the Hurricane healthy scratched Kaberle. Last thing they would want is the guy they are trying to dump get injured before they could dump him on another team. Just like another team wanting to trade for your million dollar minor leaguer.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions

yeah, I am pretty sure there wasn't

since it was about three weeks before the deal when through, and he got plenty of playing time between then and the trade (when Joni Pitkanen got himself concussed)

If you have a guy in the last year of a big, untradeable contract and you think a minor leaguer is better, there is no reason to keep the overpriced guy in the lineup. None

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions

We have no depth on the blueline. It would benefit the team greatly to have Ohlund and Kubina retire effective immediately.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions

Holy crap.

R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
Rakastan suuria Maalivahdit Skandinaviasta

by CAustin on Dec 22, 2011 11:19 AM EST reply actions

Yep.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions

How do you know they didnt

Have a bad game when you did not watch the game. They had a terrible game ! I’ll be the first to admit we are overrated after our playoff run, but we should not be this bad. There was no effort out there last night by the lightning. Well I probably shouldn’t generalize that much. Guys like Tyrell and Jones and Pyatt are giving the effort, they just lack in the talent department.
Our defense is a mess, so is our goaltending. Moore, Purcell, Vinny, Malone all just going through the motions. Sloppy play, no fire, no desire. Watched the Flyer/ Stars game before watching the Bolts. The one good thing about Versus is you can gauge the intensity of play around the league. Pens / Hawks the day before. With the Lightning, the intensity is just not there. Not even close.
I agree with MTB about Kubina and Ohlund, even if he may have just been kidding. The game has passed them by. If there is not one or two guys at Norfolk that can’t give a bit more than we are getting up here then we are in a sorry state. I can’t believe Barberio or Gudas or anyone for that matter can’t deliver on par with the garbage we are seeing .
Just my frustrated, fed up opinion from someone who did have the displeasure of staying up and watching this team give no effort at all.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 11:31 AM EST reply actions

Yes.

Just watched episode 2 of this year’s 24/7 series. If there is one thing that is becoming more clear with successful teams, not just this year, but past few. Is that the majority of raw productive talent is coming from the young guys and 3rd/4th liners.

Especially when injuries come into play. Teams are living and dying by their depth, ability to adapt, young fire and overall passion to play… and win. Not just veteran leadership anymore. manage to combine the two and it’s deadly.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions

I didn’t say that it wasn’t a bad game, just that it could’ve been worse.

Barberio is not an NHL-calibre defenseman, and Gudas is behind Hedman in terms of development. Outside of Gudas, who isn’t ready for the NHL at this point, and now Oberg, Norfolk doesn’t have anyone who can step up into even a third defensive pairing. And even Oberg hasn’t been put into the lineup just yet for as many times as he’s been brought up.

It should be no surprise that depth at defense and goaltending is an issue as it has been for a few years now. One of the biggest reasons that the Lightning did so well last season was because they were lucky enough to not be injured often. That’s not been the case this season, and it’s exposed the weaknesses that have been there all along.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions

At this point..

What do we have to lose by throwing in Barberio, Oberg or Gudas? Another game? I’m still not that worried, as it’s still very early. So this may seem a bit drastic, but hell, what could it hurt? Not like we’d be breaking up any chemistry between any players, because their hasn’t been any. With the exception of a few of our grinders/3rd & 4th liners on some nights.

Can’t speak for Oberg and hard to say for Barberio or Gudas, as I don’t catch many Norfolk games. However, thought Barberio looked great at past few camps, same for Gudas at most recent one. Regardless, they’re all here/there for a reason, because we see something in them. What better way to test that, than at “the show”??

Being a bit too cautious this season, which hasn’t panned out. Time for a change, regardless of who or for how long. We know this is a process, but been no excuse lately.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions

You rush players now and you could end up with players who don’t ever reach their potential due to injury or destroyed confidence. I’d rather sacrifice a season or two now in order to see the big payoff later on. You can start rushing guys into the lineup now, but you’ll still have the same problem that’s already there – injuries and lack of depth. It won’t go away, even with a couple of trades. In the end, you’re just trading depth for depth, because no one’s going to take on most of these guys’ contracts.

Let’s face it, the Lightning are not a Stanley Cup winning team at this point. And while I’d like to see them in playoffs, they’re likely not going to get as far this season as they did last season, even if they do make it in. Yzerman never promised they’d win the Cup anytime soon, that he wanted to build from within the system, and that rebuilding would take a while. Well, it’s still going to take a while, regardless of what happens this season.

The bottom line is, do you want to make playoffs now or win a Stanley Cup in three or four years? Because I doubt they’ll be able to do both, at this point. The Detroit Red Wings winning ways didn’t happen overnight, and if Yzerman wants to copy that successful model – most of which happened before there was a salary cap – then this won’t, either.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 1:48 PM EST up reply actions

Yes

More of this, please.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions

Are you suggesting that I write something up about this? Like an actual post? :oO

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions

I didn’t say anything. ;-)

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions

One game. Shake things up. Take the test. Comfort is death.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions

I agree that safe is death, but there’s no point. If they start bringing up guys from Norfolk for a game here or there, just to test them, that’s as good as the Lightning management telling the players that they’re throwing in the towel on the season – and it’s way too early for that. Teams only do that sort of thing after they’re eliminated from playoffs.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions

We’ve done it several times already this season. A lot of teams do when things aren’t “clicking.” Just been different players. If those guys aren’t doing it, why not try someone else, like Gudas or Barbs. Can one game really hurt? What if it ends up working out? It’s happened before.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions

Injury call-ups are completely different from what you’d initially suggested. Regardless, what if it doesn’t end up working, as it hasn’t yet this season? What if, instead, Gudas blows out a knee and is out for the remainder of the season and all summer? What if they miss playoffs, no matter what they do?

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions

Talking about “playing like crap” call-ups. How do we know it hasn’t worked yet this season? We’ve been cycling the same group of players up and down, for whatever reasons at the time. So why not try some other players, if the other players, who are supposed to be NHL ready.. aren’t cutting it?

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions

I think it’s too big of a risk for too little return.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions

He could blow a knee, no matter where he’s playing.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions

Very true, but the chances of that happening go up when you’re playing catch up.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions

Agreed with everything said here. You absolutely should not rush the young guys or you run into issues with their development. IMO Stamkos is an example of this. They threw him in to the NHL his first year and it took him longer than it might have if he would have spent a couple of months in the AHL first. No way to know for sure but I certainly think that is likely the case.

It takes years to build up a strong system and unfortunately you won’t see progress until 3 + years after it all starts. The Lightning need to be concerned with getting their system built up while playing quality hockey. Last year, the Lightning over achieved and caused a lot of people to get their expectations up.

by xaryss on Dec 22, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions

I’d say Stamkos has turned out pretty darn good. Some guys are just an exception to the rule.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions

You are correct that he turned out okay. All I am saying is I think it slowed his progress.

by xaryss on Dec 22, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions

I agree. Stamkos should never have started his rookie season in the NHL. That probably set him back a year defensively, at least.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions

That's baloney

If anything it probably sped up his progress. Everyone takes there lumps moving up to the big show. Do you really think he would have picked up more being down in Norfolk than sitting next to Marty after every shift and playing against top notch talent every night.
Last I checked, last week, Barberio was a + 19, which is pretty much unheard of for minor league defensemen. We can continue with our major league defensemen playing at a minor league level or try it the other way.
By bringing up a minor leaguer it doesn’t say you are giving up on the season but rather sends the message to the complacent that the flights to Norfolk run both ways, so get your butt in gear or get out.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions

So you think that Stamkos is good defensively then? As good as he would be had he played at a lower level for a few months? ‘Cuz I don’t.

There’s a world of difference between the AHL and the NHL; and last I checked, most NHL regulars do not get sent down to the minor leagues just because they’re not playing well.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions

Oh please, he's an All Star

And probably one of the top five players in the league. And what exactly would a few months down in Norfolk would have taught him ?
How much defense did Marc Andre Bergeron learn at Norfolk, and he’s a defenseman.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions

I see that you only see hockey as just scoring goals and stopping pucks – nothing else.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions

on some level of description. . .

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions

I was implying forwards that only scoring forwards and goaltending matter. ;o)

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions

ah, okay, then on no level of description

;-)

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions

At least young lady

When I express an opinion on what I see I have done so on actually seeing that which I choose to comment upon.
It certainly hasn’t been a defensive deficiencies in Steven Stamkos which plague this team

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions

if you watched yesterday, young/old lady/man

you would know that everything was the problem. and actually a poor defensive effort by Stamkos led to San Jose’s 6th goal

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah you're right maybe we should

Send him back to Norfolk so that it never happens again.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions

don't be silly

Cassie commented that he developed more slowly than he otherwise would, not that he needs to go down for more seasoning. You were the one who brought last night into it. Ironically.

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions

He was a 51 goal scorer

And an All Star within one year of playing for the bolts. Is that your definition of developmental delay ?

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions

You do realize that I’m saying “defense”, right? I do not question Stamkos’s offensive abilities – they are very obviously good. He’s just not that strong on defense, that’s all.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions

weren't we talking about defensive development?

what does how many goals he scored and whether he made the ASG have to do with anything?

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions

So no points for not misleading anyone by stating up front that I didn’t watch this game, huh? That’s too bad. I thought I’d at least get some credit for being honest.

We may not see eye to eye, and that’s fine. I enjoy a healthy and respectful discussion, since I sometimes learn things I might’ve missed. But please do not patronize just because I’m female and I’m writing about professional men’s sports.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions

Oh please

No one patronized you for being a lady commenting on a men’s sport. I have disagreed with many of your points, especially today, but I never once made it personal until you just took a backhanded swipe at my ability to see a hockey game.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions

It's a very rare comment beginning with "at least, young lady"

that isn’t patronizing

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 5:54 PM EST up reply actions

Sorry if you saw it that way. I prefer players who play a more complete game – both offense and defense – and a lot of people just focus on offensive ability. And goaltending, too, of course. And you appear to be someone who is like that. That’s all I was saying.

But then, you just took a swipe at my ability to read a game, too – even if it’s only thru statistics.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions

And I apologize if you

Interpreted my retort as being patronizing since it was not meant to be.
I just see Stamkos as being the least of our troubles. There is probably not a player in the league he would be traded for even up, even with his defensive lapses.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions

I think y'all might be talking past each other a bit

no one ever said Stamkos is among our troubles (except that I pointed out a defensive lapse last night). Cassie said that bringing folks up too fast can sometimes slow their development. Stamkos’ defensive lapses early in his career were an example. But the conversation is about folks like Oberg and Gudas

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions

Stamkos’s offensive ability is one of the best things about the team right now. But that doesn’t make him perfect. Everyone is having problems – including him. I was just using him as an example, that’s all.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions

I think there certainly has been some misunderstanding as to what everyone is saying. The Stamkos example was just that an example of how sometimes it is better to not rush young players into the NHL. This was in reference to bringing up some of the Lightning’s few defensive recruits who are most likely not ready for the NHL as a knee jerk reaction.

by xaryss on Dec 22, 2011 8:29 PM EST up reply actions

Sorry just don't buy it

Do you believe that if Stamkos played his first year in Norfolk he would have been an All Star and 51 goal scorer in year 2. I don’t. I believe he learned more in one year in Tampa than he would have learned in 3 down below.
I just think using Stammer as an example for any form of delayed development is an extremely poor choice.
Snipers are snipers and rarely excel on defense. The Guy Lafluers, Reggie Leachs, mike Bossys are there to light up the net. Their offense is their defense. There are plenty other pieces of the puzzle to fill up the defensive holes.
Sure there are players that are better left to develop in the minors, but Stamkos is not one of them.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I do believe that Stamkos would have been better prepared if he would have played in the AHL for the first half of the season. He was lost his first season and the beginning of the second. Regardless, Stamkos turned out fine. This still applies to other players in the Lightning organization who are not ready to be thrown to the NHL and could potentially lose more than they would gain by doing so.

by xaryss on Dec 22, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions

Disagreement is healthy

And has sparked some interesting debate on this board today.
Stamkos was born to be a goal scorer. You tinker too much with that god given talent and it rarely creates the total O/D player. Offhand, guys I consider excellent 2 way players, Ryan Callahan or a Patrice Bergeron are never going to get you 50 goals. Stammer has been coached all his life and it continues today, but his true talent is uncoachable, being in the right spot around the net and firing away. There was no amount of time in the minors that was going to make him any better than he already is. Or any different. He proved he had the physical and mental maturity to survive the pressure and grueling schedule.
How about Hedman ? Do you believe he would be a better defenseman at this stage if he spent 2 years playing against minor league talent as opposed to the big boys.
Playing against a tougher level of competition is one of the best ways to raise ones game. Growing pains and transition time will always be there. Some guys aren’t ready, some never will be but Stamkos’ rise has been meteoric, and IMO hastened by his exposure in Tampa.
But I guess we’ll never know how much better time in Norfolk would have made Steve.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 9:45 PM EST up reply actions

IMO the Lightning were forced to throw Stamkos out there because they put all of their marketing chips out there claiming he was the next Gretzky. It would have not sold many tickets if they would have sent him down to Norfolk. I do believe that 1/2 or more other teams in the league would have put him down in the AHL because he just wasn’t ready and needed a little adjustment period.

Hedman could be another example where as typically defensive players take longer to mature than offensive players. What I mean by that is they typically need more time in the minors to get caught up with the pace of the game and the skillset required.

You are correct though. Disagreement is fun and it is always good to get someone elses’ perspective. Unfortunately, we are arguing something that will never be proved.

by xaryss on Dec 22, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions

Like I said

We know this is a process, but been no excuse lately.

Maybe I should explain more on this. I’ve also been preaching since day one, the obvious fact that JM pointed out during his first press conference with the Bolts.. this isn’t going to happen overnight and the plan is to make a real Cup contender, year after year. Which yes, would also happen to resemble the Red Wings successful model. And hey, why the hell not? It’d be pretty absurd to expect anything else when you bring in Steve Yzerman to be GM. Salary cap or not, all the money in the world can’t buy success. Especially in the sport of hockey.

At the same time though… I also believe last year was NO fluke and that this team has the talent to be doing, at the very least, much better than what we’ve seen thus far. Yes, the bar was set pretty damn high, by last year’s run. All the more reason to want it again, this year. Like having a Cup hangover, with no Cup. But.. I’m also a Red Wings fan, so what do I know? Haha.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions

I don't think last year was a fluke either

but the defense last year was just as bad as it is this year—it’s not like there’s been some huge regression that we can just up and fix. Now the power play. . . yeesh. But I don’t think that’s personnel, I think it’s coaching.

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions

Personally, I think they’re seriously missing Gagne’s leadership.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions

On the ice or off? Do you think he made that much of a difference? I would think he was kind of the odd man out, for most of season. Take time for anyone to adjust, after being with one system for so long. Both mentally and playing wise.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions

The majority of the roster is either younger guys or guys who were traumatized under Tocchet’s ‘coaching’ tenure. Gagne is a proven winner, and he knows exactly what it takes to win. They’re missing that winning attitude of his the most, I think. He might not have done much while he was with the Lightning on the ice, but he was a very big part of their playoff drive last season – in the locker room, at least.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Dec 22, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions

Actually the team really started

To gel as a team when both Gagne and Vinny were out with injuries. Guys worked harder and developed a team first mentality. This whole leadership thing is nonsense. Everyone has a job to do, and a job means you work. Most of the players are just coasting through their job right now. It’s just 60 minutes every couple of days, get out there and work for the puck.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions

Steve Yzerman, by the way

Scored 39 goals for the Red Wings at the mature age of 18.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions

Yzerman never promised they’d win the Cup anytime soon, that he wanted to build from within the system, and that rebuilding would take a while. Well, it’s still going to take a while, regardless of what happens this season.

This is the conclusion I’ve been coming to, as well, and it’s why I really think that SY is going to be prepared to be patient and not make a move unless he can do it on his own terms. I think that as a GM, he’s looking down the road a couple of years as much as at the rest of this season.

R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
Rakastan suuria Maalivahdit Skandinaviasta

by CAustin on Dec 22, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions

Disagree

as it’s still very early.

That statement could have passed a month ago, but it’s not early any longer. The season is over a quarter complete. It’s not panic time, but it’s not early, either.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions

By early I mean… plenty of time to make a run. Doesn’t matter how we get there, so long as we do.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions

I think Jay’s series on pace paints a different picture. We need to start the run now.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions

it's sure not getting any prettier as we dilly-dally

we can compare ourselves to last year’s Buffalo team or to a whole lot of unsuccessful teams throughout the last several years

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions

True. Really, the run should start on game one of the season. But far as actual time needed, statistic wise, we have time.

"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Dec 22, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions

I wasn't kidding

Ohlund and Kubina need to be thanked for their service and given retirement watches. Or something.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions

It’s not Vinny’s fault. Nor Stamkos’. Not even Hedman’s fault (DEFINITELY).

Guy Boucher and Steve Yzerman are to blame.

They were the ones that thought Marc-Andre Bergeron and Matt Gilroy were top-4 defensemen. They thought Clark and Kubina had another season in the tank.
They thought Downie was a viable top-6 forward. Thought that Ryan Shannon would get them a cheap top-6 forward. Gambled that Pyatt (a guy who couldn’t break the HABS lineup), Thompson and Hall would provide the necessary scoring depth.
They love their “puck-moving” defensemen but forgot that they have to, you know, play defense. They let that no-that-important stuff to 20-year-old Hedman and Eric Brewer. And now Hedman gets the heat from the fans despite leading the team on Corsi Rel QoC, for example. And he does that while getting +65% of Dzone starts. That’s one bad 20-year-old Dman…

I really hope the philosophy on defensemen changes next offseason. That’s my main concern right now because I don’t think it will change. Enough with the “puck-moving”, “mobile” guys. Bring in defensemen. Enough with the Bergerons, bring in the Boychuks.

Following the Lightning from Rio Grande, Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil.
Let's. Go. BOLTS!

by Rafael Amarante on Dec 22, 2011 6:08 PM EST reply actions

they obviously gambled on Clark, Kubina, and Roli having another year

and it didn’t pay off. Nothing can be done about it now though. Learn from the mistakes and move on.

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions

Clark does have his upside: blocking shots.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 7:06 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions

he can still block shots

but he’s having a rough, rough year

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions

yes he can block shots

If he could win a battle or 2 and get the puck out of the d zone maybe he wouldn’t have so many opportunities to block shots.

by Slip Mahoney on Dec 22, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions

sorry for the sarcasm. I’m still feeling the effects of last nights no show!

by Slip Mahoney on Dec 22, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions

aren't we all?

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions

All excellent points

I just don’t agree that Boucher and Yzerman are to blame so to speak. Boucher must play the cards he’s dealt, and with the cap and our top heavy salary structure I don’t think the GM had much room to deal.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions

He also had to manage with the draft picks other people had made. Yzerman has only had two drafts with the Lightning. Not nearly enough to be able to implement a strategy. The current lack of depth in the AHL cannot really be blamed on Yzerman or Boucher.

R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
Rakastan suuria Maalivahdit Skandinaviasta

by CAustin on Dec 22, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions

I really think they would have loved

To bring back Bergenheim and Smitty. I would have loved it as well. Teams in need however are going to overpay for your depth talent to fill their needs. We were forced to go with the cheap alternatives with the immediate need of signing up Stamkos for the long term. With the long term Vinny contract our hands are pretty much tied as to improving our team through free agency or trades.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions

long-term Vinny, NMC for Bugsy, long-term Ohlund, untradeable Kubina (finally running out!)

lots of things to work around

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions

Smitty?

Really? Based on last year (and the year before) and the flop-fest thereof? Or this year, with 20/20 hindsight given his year in Phoenix?

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Dec 22, 2011 7:08 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions

Actually the second half of the season

When the pressure of being number one was off, and the playoffs.
But hindsight is always 20/20.
I’ve said it before also, that I believe he was a strong locker room presence and good at livening the mood which could come in handy at times like this.

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions

Hmm...I disagree with that assessment of Bergeron.

I don’t know what was said when he was brought out, but he’s being paid like a third-liner and he’s being used like one too. He is what he is — valuable in certain, defined roles. I don’t think Boucher has ever tried to use him differently, and I don’t think Yzerman was planning on Bergeron being a top 4 when he brought him in.

Who do I get to rage against about the Ohlund deal, though? That’s woof at this point.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 22, 2011 10:11 PM EST up reply actions

Bergeron is being used as a top-4, even as a top-2 in some games.

I have no problem having Bergeron on the roster if he is no. 6 on the depth chart. It’s not the case right now. Maybe (hopefully) it will be next year.

Following the Lightning from Rio Grande, Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil.
Let's. Go. BOLTS!

by Rafael Amarante on Dec 22, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions

No...he's not.

He’s seeing some of the weakest competition of all the Bolts defenders. If he’s ever on the ice with the Bolts’ top offensive line, that’s only because they’re on a power play. Lemme copy this over:

The higher the QoC score, the better the competition faced.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 22, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions

So he's #5 on the depth chart. Pretty close to what you'd like, I guess.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 22, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions

TOI you posted doesn’t add up. He’s third among Lightning Dmen w/ +19 min per game.

Faces weaker competition, but is on the ice more frequently than Gilroy, Clark and Kubina.

Following the Lightning from Rio Grande, Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil.
Let's. Go. BOLTS!

by Rafael Amarante on Dec 22, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions

he's doing his job though

it’s Clark and Kubina (who I think we were counting on to be the 2nd pairing—and who are the 2nd pairing as far as facing the toughest competition) who aren’t

If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk

by Incipient_Senescence on Dec 22, 2011 10:37 PM EST up reply actions

I expect this is even strength TOI. Bergeron leads the d-men in PP time (fitting for an offensive d-man.)

R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
Rakastan suuria Maalivahdit Skandinaviasta

by CAustin on Dec 22, 2011 11:14 PM EST up reply actions

Yup, exactly.

I really need to remember to mention that…keep forgetting that caveat.

I love Casey Fossum. Now try and take me seriously.
Follow @steveslow

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 23, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions

WOW!!!

More than a little passion here today. That’s a good thing. It shows that most people still care.

I couldn’t quite believe what I saw last night. Apparently I’m a closet masochist as I watched the game in it’s entirety. Very painful! Today I read several game recaps that varied in opinion and temperature. The best game recap was not a recap at all. The best description of last nights game was a comment made by one of the Lightnings opponents………….

“When you get two quick ones you assume you’ll get more chances,” Couture said. “The puck was following me around all night. They didn’t have much energy in the first period and we jumped on them. We scored, and then scored and scored and scored.”

Hard to argue with solid logic.

There’s something very wrong with this team. At this point I’ll refrain from saying more since I’m still really pissed off about what I saw last night. Maybe a night spent with a quality adult beverage, or 3, will allow me to say something a little more insightful.

Until then, I’ll remain disgusted!

by Slip Mahoney on Dec 22, 2011 8:56 PM EST reply actions

This quote by Couture is humiliating.

Following the Lightning from Rio Grande, Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil.
Let's. Go. BOLTS!

by Rafael Amarante on Dec 22, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions

Exactly! Humiliating in it’s bare truth.

by Slip Mahoney on Dec 22, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions

Go ahead and let

it all out Slip. BE THE THUNDER. You’ll feel better !

by malapraxis on Dec 22, 2011 9:57 PM EST reply actions

We have #2 D-man a #3 and 5 #6 Dmen

At keast kast year we had options with Lundin, Jones and Smaby. Brewer is the only D-man willing to physically disposses an opponent of the puck. It doesn’t take much to figure this was a bad gamble by Yzerman.

Don in St Pete

by Don in St Pete on Dec 22, 2011 10:07 PM EST reply actions