Question of the Week: Who Will the Lightning Miss the Most?
by Tina Robinson on Jul 14, 2011 4:26 PM EDT
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The NHL's "free agent feeding frenzy" has come and gone for another year. Some teams gained, some teams lost and there were a lot of big bucks thrown at some of those free agents. There were some minor league free agents lost by the Bolts, but for the purposes of this question, let's refer to the ones that were with the Lightning at some point last season.
So, how did Tampa Bay do in retaining its free agents? Well, let's see...
Sean Bergenheim? Bye-bye. Simon Gagne? Sorry Gags, see ya around. Mike Lundin? Sayonara, Mike. Mike Smith? Gone. Matt Smaby? Nice knowing ya. Teddy Purcell and Steven Stamkos? So long boys. Oh. Wait. That one hasn't happened? So sorry, my mistake.
OK, so my question to the Raw Charge staff this week is: Who do you think will be the hardest to replace among the departed players (who will be the biggest loss)? And how would you like to see them replaced? Go the free agent or trade route? Or fill the spots internally and give one of the "kids" a chance?
The Raw Charge staff waded into the fray on these questions. Their answers and a poll after the jump. Feel free to discuss it amongst yourselves as we await the new season. Training camp starts in approximately 65 days.
John Fontana
Mike Lundin on defense.
Lets go back to some facts on the three marquee losses to unrestricted free agency by the Lightning: Sean Bergenheim, who was a third line grinder who scored 29 points last season, Simon Gagne - who was oft injured and put up a total of 40 points when he did play, and Mike Smith - do I need to elaborate here? All three departures have been lamented (see John Romano's piece in the St. Pete Times) but none were irreplacable.
Lundin, on the other hand, was one of the few dependable defensemen the Lightning have produced over the last few years. Complain about his 2011 playoff performance all you want, Lundin was fantastic during the regular season as a shutdown D.
The Lightning have brought in two new players to fill in on defense, Matt Gilroy and Bruno Gervais, but neither are of the same variety of defenseman that Lundin was. That doesn't mean that they won't contribute on their own, in a different way, to the Lightning. It's more a testament that the Bolts moved away from the stay-at-home type defenseman that Lundin was.
Cassie McClellan
I think of any of them, the hardest to replace is probably Cedrick Desjardins. Dustin Tokarski might be a better player in the end, but Desjardins was ready for the NHL now. He should've been the backup for Dwayne Roloson this year, giving him a year of seasoning, and then been the starter the following season. As of right now, they're sort of up a creek without a paddle in terms of goaltending talent. Roloson's signed for one season, and he's 40 years old, while Mathieu Garon is signed for two years and isn't really starter material. I think that the Lightning need to bring in another younger goalie or two to shore up the position. You can never have too many good goaltenders, after all - and if you do, you can always trade them for other talent.
Clark Brooks
The loss of Stamkos to the Toronto Flyers is catastrophic and I'm calling for owner Jeff Vinik to just suspend operation of the Tampa Bay Lightning for the next 10 years because of it.
Of course, I guess it's possible that might not happen so on the off-chance that it doesn't, I'd say I think we're going to miss Sean Bergenheim. I know he "only" contributed 29 points but he seemed like such a good fit in coach Boucher's system and within the team itself. I'd like to see Richard Panik get a shot at fill that roster spot.
Matt Amos (Don't Trade Vinny)
Although the trendy pick would likely be Simon Gagne, I will personally miss Cedrick Desjardins the most. He has a lot of potential, and the workload he took on was vital to allow the other prospects (DustinTokarski, Jaroslav Janus) to not rush their development.
Depth at the goal tending position has never exactly been a strength of the Lightning, it was nice for the one year we had it.
Dani Toth
I'm going to miss the Dan Ellis jokes...But since the question is about who we lost in free agency, not who we traded away, my answer is: nobody.
Really, I'm not particularly bothered by any of the players who walked away from the Lightning this summer unless Sean Begenheim suddenly starts scoring 30 goals for the Panthers or Simon Gagne can make it through a season without getting injured. It will be hindsight if that happens, but really, what are the chances?
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No question for me--Desjardins
Trying to time goalie-readiness is next to impossible. Without Desjardins, this team is going to be searching for a starter next year, but without any real possibility of a call-up for Tokarski being the answer. That loss will reverberate for the next 2-3 years, maybe more if there’s another serious injury. The loss of Bergenheim, Gagne, and Lundin may require some adjustment but that adjustment will likely be made before December, even if there is an injury.
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
I forgot the "what to do about it" part
But that’s okay because KubKub and I have devised a cunning plan. Tim Thomas. No, seriously that’s the plan. His NTC expires at the end of this season, and he’ll have one year left on his contract. If Boston wants to hold onto Rask, they may want to trade Thomas. What are you laughing about?
Alright. It’s possible that Nashville has a Swede they’re not using. Maybe they’ll trade him for some—oh, I don’t know, forward prospects. Everyone’s happy, right?
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
That’s not the first time I’ve heard that particular plan. I saw it discussed on one of the other Lightning blogs too, so other folks seem to be thinking right along with you guys on that one.
Of course, if the Preds want to trade us Rinne (and don’t want an arm and leg—or at least too many prospects—for him) then I’m ok with that plan too.
Yes, I know that was NOT who you were suggesting… LOL
Dwayne Roloson: "You damn [insert team name here]! GET OFF MY LAWN!!"
by Tina Robinson on Jul 14, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
if the Preds want to trade us Rinne
From my cold, dead—-what? hey, I know. Rinne for Stamkos! I’ve heard that one before too.
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
A+ for effort
But that’s really the “long term” plan? Go after another “career twilight” goalie after Roli retires?
I would rather make a go at Schneider, Lindback (as you suggest), or any other goalie in their early 30s.
There’s also no guarantee TT maintains his other-worldly performance, aside from the fact he’ll be 39 the next time he’s a FA. Statistically speaking, he will sooner rather than later.
"[The Lightning] are uncanny. When they want to get a goal, it's like they just snap their fingers or hit a button. They just dial it up. You can see it. It's like they flip a switch. When they are down, it's just like they think, 'we know we are going to score.' I don't know what it is, it leaves [the opposition] flabbergasted." - Mike Knuble, 3 May 2011
The Cunning Plan is based on the premise that Tokarski is the goalie of our future. Thomas is—and it hurts to say this in ways you can’t possibly imagine—a stopgap. An extremely good, even-if-he-has-started-to-fall-off-a-bit stopgap. What is needed to prepare Tic is about 3 years of good solid preparation and mentoring. Thomas has been good for Rask. He’d likely be good for Tokarski, too. The Cunning Plan also has about a 1 in 1000000000 chance of being put into action, unfortunately.
If we were to get a young goalie like Schneider or Lindy, we have to be concerned with what happens to the goalies already in the system. A starter expected to be here for 4-5 years pushes the whole depth chart down a step. I’m not saying that’s a dealbreaker; I’m saying that when you have nowhere for your up and comers to go, you’ll lose them and all the money and effort you’ve invested in them and screw up your depth, so you want to be as sure as you can that this starter is really the player you want and that you can expect to be able to replace him when the time comes.
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
And I guess no one here is a “Blackadder” fan. :(
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
Also even if we did pick up an RFA, it wouldnt be bad to have a 1A and 1B option based on the grind goalies go though, their tendency to be streaky as a class, and ultimately their trade value.
I’m not sure how well Mike Smith coming back would go over around here. I like Quick, except for that bent-over thing he does, but that’s his style so I’d take him as is. Not sold on Labarbera or Greiss yet, but the door is open certainly. Capgeek has Howard signed through 2013. Are you looking at a trade? Cuz I’m not sure Detroit is willing to give him up.
And I wholeheartedly believe in tandems, as opposed to a straight starter-backup thing. I’ve said before that it’s no coincidence that Timmay started only 57 games this year and 54 in 08-09. I like a 52-30 split or thereabouts, unless both guys are very young. Then it should be more even. Just my opinion, of course.
And again, on Lindy. There’s no doubt he’s the real deal, but he’s very young and has very little experience in NA. His stock will rise if and only if he gets those 25 starts this season behind Peks.
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
The laundry list above are the likely pickings of the 2013 free agent crop :)
(on the tangent that Timmy T is our goalie of 2012-13)
Yeah, you need a good tandem nowadays to go deep into the playoffs. Though I think batteries with a defined 52-57 game starter seem to work better than the 41/41 shares, particularly when the playoffs hit.
Ahhhh…I see. This is step two of the Cunning Plan. Well, heck in that case bring on Lindy.
Some guys do better really competing for starts when they’re at that sort of midpoint in their development where they’ve made the NHL roster, but they haven’t gotten that starter position. I (as the hypothetical coach) would always, always adjust to the circumstances and play whoever earns it, regardless of the actual division of labor, while still trying to keep fatigue down. There are a lot of young goalies who are very good but have a hard time getting into any kind of rhythm playing 25 games spread out over a season. It’s hard to learn to ride out the rough spots when you’re only playing one game at a time.
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
Right, but come playoff time you need a defined Starter and Backup roles (and a Starter who will step up into the Starter role), otherwise you become the Flyers or the Caps…
Tough question..
And a definite hard one to answer for sure, until were atleast a good bit into the season. If I had to answer today though and make best guess.. Ice Berg & Gags
We all know what a talented player Gagne is, which made expectations even higher and probably didn’t help his case much. Slightly similar to the Modano situation in Detroit.. 2 great players, when given the chance and are comfortable. Both making huge changes in the form of home city/team and their part in the system. Then, on top of that, dealing with injuries all season long, never really getting a chance to settle into their game. Both the Bolts and Gags will be left, filled with a million “what ifs?” Chances are, we’ll never really know how losing him will effect us. Hopefully, it won’t be in Gags known “money spot”… a huge OT goal in the playoffs. At 5 mill a season, makes it hard to sit around waiting and wondering.
IseBerg… if we never acquired him prior to last season, we wouldn’t even know to be missing him. I really feel Bergie made a poor choice in not trying to stick in Tampa for atleast another season. He flourished here for several reasons, several reasons that may not be around on the east coast.. like Coach Boucher and his system. Hopefully it pans out for him and this past helluva season wasn’t just a well oiled fluke.
What to do about it??? Have one bad ass mofo continue to be our JM (check). Have another bad ass mofo continue to be our coach (check) Chances are.. theirs a bunch more Bergies and Gags out there, just waiting to be picked up on the low from JM & Co. and molded into first class players. Bottom line: I trust in the organization and the people running it.
So... if that was just the beginning? Can't friggin' wait to see what's next!! A HUGE Thank You to Mr. Vinik, Steve Yzerman, Guy Boucher & the whole damn Lightning team/organization!! 100% Continued support and respect.
by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Jul 14, 2011 8:11 PM EDT reply actions
Gagne
Apparently 41% of people would have held on to Smaby over everyone else. Ok…..?
I personally chose Gagne, he may have health issues but he’s the only player we lost who has proven himself to be consistently clutch (when available) throughout his career. Sure, Bergenheim scored his goals in the playoffs (in large part to simply keeping his stick on the ice) but let’s be honest here, he had 29 points in his best NHL season. Gagne has the intangibles that every top 6 forward needs in the playoffs, and his true value was on display this year (again, when he was healthy). I wish them all the best of luck in the future, especially Smith.
I wondered about the vote for Smaby as well. He didn’t play very much last season. Some of it was because he was hurt, but the rest of the time he was a healthy scratch. Yes, his size was a definite need, but still, if he wasn’t good enough to crack the top six, then why in the world do folks want to hang onto him? If I had to choose between Smaby and Lundin to keep one, I’d choose Lundin every time.
Dwayne Roloson: "You damn [insert team name here]! GET OFF MY LAWN!!"
by Tina Robinson on Jul 15, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
that has to be a glitch, right?
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (in that order). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Jul 15, 2011 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
A glitch, or a hack to the system (that is ongoing with SB Nation polls) or a fanclub linked to the post and said "vote for Matt! :’-( )
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jul 15, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Well could make the argument that he was a reliable 8th D-man. (remember coach B carries 7, so its only 1 off on the depth chart.) and would be a very gentle cap hit to hang on to (Whereas Gagne, Bergy, Lundin woulda been a more painful cap hit taht could be regrettable come trade deadline). I think it may be a fan lack-of-confidence in Gilroy and Gervais to take his slot (at what will probably be a high cap hit each.)
Lundin
He’s not a popular choice because he’s not physical, not flashy and doesn’t put up a ton of points (though he did double up Ohlund’s point total). He was, however, one of the best defensemen we had on the roster every night. Boucher lauded him for his calm play under pressure and consistently put him on the ice against the opposition’s top lines.
I hope Gilroy will be suitable substitute, or even a slight upgrade, but I still think Lundin’s presence is missing. Since we have a glut of defensemen right now, I would consider trading a couple of them for a stay-at-home blueliner.
"[The Lightning] are uncanny. When they want to get a goal, it's like they just snap their fingers or hit a button. They just dial it up. You can see it. It's like they flip a switch. When they are down, it's just like they think, 'we know we are going to score.' I don't know what it is, it leaves [the opposition] flabbergasted." - Mike Knuble, 3 May 2011
If the goalie situation wasn’t so pressing, I would’ve gone with Lundin.
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 15, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, BTW
Thanks for removing the evidence of my public humiliation. ;-)
"[The Lightning] are uncanny. When they want to get a goal, it's like they just snap their fingers or hit a button. They just dial it up. You can see it. It's like they flip a switch. When they are down, it's just like they think, 'we know we are going to score.' I don't know what it is, it leaves [the opposition] flabbergasted." - Mike Knuble, 3 May 2011
No problem. ;o)
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 15, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Smaby’s leading the poll? Really? Why? He was a healthy scratch for much – if not all – of playoffs.
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 15, 2011 9:38 AM EDT reply actions
Smaybe they didn’t watch any games. Or, smaybe he’s their favorite player. Okay, enough puns.
"[The Lightning] are uncanny. When they want to get a goal, it's like they just snap their fingers or hit a button. They just dial it up. You can see it. It's like they flip a switch. When they are down, it's just like they think, 'we know we are going to score.' I don't know what it is, it leaves [the opposition] flabbergasted." - Mike Knuble, 3 May 2011
Such a punny guy you is!
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 15, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
All your polls are belong to hack.
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jul 15, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
ZOMG! U R so 733t, John! LOLZ! Such a haX0r!
Okay, that’s the limit to my “leet” literacy. I’m too old to learn more.
"[The Lightning] are uncanny. When they want to get a goal, it's like they just snap their fingers or hit a button. They just dial it up. You can see it. It's like they flip a switch. When they are down, it's just like they think, 'we know we are going to score.' I don't know what it is, it leaves [the opposition] flabbergasted." - Mike Knuble, 3 May 2011
I think playoff performance kinda fell by the wayside here
in regards to Gagne and Bergenheim.
This team is still a playoff team as they stand now (assuming Stammer and Purcell do eventually return). That’s not the concern really. Gagne and Bergenheim didn’t have great offensive regular seasons last year, and this team put up 46 wins and 103 points.
However, both those guys played huge roles in the Lightning coming within a game of the Final. I don’t think Bergenheim has that kind of ridiculous goal-scoring spurt in him again, but Gagne has proven to be a great player come the playoffs. Lets hope adequate replacement production can be found next season.
I guess I am saying I think Gagne is the biggest loss. Injury-prone for basically his entire career, but still a very skilled forward when healthy, capable of scoring and assisting at high levels.
Now on Twitter @Carcillo_
http://twitter.com/#!/Carcillo_
You have to base someone’s usefulness with the team off their entire tenure — not just one segment of the season.
Every player has the opportunity to shine in the playoffs. But they need to shine in the regular season in order for the team to make the playoffs int he first place. If the Lightning remain a playoff team without either player, it’s questionable if they’d be the only players able to step up as they did durign the 2011 NHL playoffs.
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jul 15, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
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