Any city can be a hockey city - even Tampa, Florida
With the Atlanta Thrashers leaving the state of Georgia, a lot of talk has been about how Atlanta "just isn’t a hockey town" – whatever that means. This statement actually makes no sense to me. But maybe it’s because I’m a hockey fan.
Yes, there are places that have a reputation for being ambivalent about sports in general. Although, I would still argue that it depends entirely upon the sport and how it's presented to a city/region. And while Atlanta is labeled as this sort of a city, one that can take or leave its pro sports teams not matter how well they're doing, they do seem to turn out pretty well for Georgia Tech college football games (capacity for Bobby Dodd Stadium is 55,000). Obviously, the professional teams in that city aren't doing what the local university is to draw fans.
You see, I genuinely believe that any place can be a hockey town – with the right kind of management, and the right type of marketing.
The management section is in regards to how the team is built and managed. And we’ve all seen some teams seriously poorly managed, haven’t we. Tampa Bay Lightning fans have to look no farther than the ugly mismanagement of OK Hockey a couple of years ago. Tampa, which is obviously a hockey town, was this close to losing the team because of them.
The marketing part is a bit more complicated. Many teams in the NHL are run by Canadians – and they’re run well, too, don’t get me wrong. But the missing piece to the puzzle is the marketing. You see, they don’t have to market hockey in Canada. All they have to do is announce a game, and then people just show up.
I’ve seen that approach used in the US, but it just doesn’t work here. People need compelling storylines; they need to be drawn into going to a game because of all of the other entertainment options out there. A game has to be more than a game; it has to be an event. The basic marketing angle that needs to always be addressed to the American sports fan is this: "Why should I go to a game?"
I mean, even the New York Yankees and the Dallas Cowboys – love them or hate them – do team marketing like that.
And that’s where a lot of hockey fails in this country. It’s not the sport of hockey itself, but the marketing of the sport. American fans need a reason to go, and many hockey teams just seem to expect people to show up if there’s a game going on. It’s a vicious cycle that doesn't get anyone anywhere.
The reason I say that any place can be a hockey town is simply the nature of the game. Listen, hockey’s a fantastic sport. We all know this to be a fact. And we all know that if you can get sports fans to go to games, they’ll become hockey fans themselves. We’ve all seen it, and it’s happened that way to many an American hockey fan in exactly that way. All they did was go to a game, and then they fell in love with it.
Why wouldn’t people love hockey? Probably because they won’t go to games. And how do you get people to games? With marketing and a winning team.
The team that was in Atlanta wasn’t interested in putting in that kind of work, and they had zero foresight. Is it really the fault of the people living there that the team itself didn’t care enough to give them a reason to go? And if the team doesn’t care, why should anyone else?
It’s a similar story in Phoenix. No one’s going to want to emotionally invest in a team that may or may not be moving. It’s the uncertainty of whether they’re staying or going that’s keeping fans from going to games, not this idea that Phoenix isn’t a hockey town. Which sucks for the Coyotes and their fans, but until the ownership situation is settled, that’s how it’s going to stay.
As for the New York Islanders, their issues stem from mismanagement as well as marketing. The team hasn’t done very well on the ice for many years, and there’s this aura of uncertainty about whether they’re staying on Long Island or not. And they’ve failed to carve themselves out a serious niche within the New York City market with their own marketing. Right now they’re sort of thrashing around without a definite direction - and loading up on high-end first round draft picks while they're in wandering aimlessly around in limbo.
Seriously. Any town can become a hockey town with a little bit of work and a little bit of foresight. Just look at the Lightning. Who would’ve thought that hockey would’ve worked in a warm climate? Sure there were a few years here and there where the team was seriously mismanaged, but they figured it out. Eventually. And now the marketing piece is just starting to come through with the St. Pete Times Forum renovations and the recent announcement of a preseason game in Orlando against the St. Louis Blues. There were a few times in the team’s history that they might’ve been on the verge of moving, but things have settled down quite nicely these days.
And that’s proof that hockey can be successful in any town if the team does things the right way. If a place like Tampa can become a hockey town, then any town can be. Just ask the Los Angeles Kings and Carolina Hurricanes.
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My thoughts exactly
I’ve been preaching this for years in regards to Nashville. It’s all about knowing your audience and knowing what it will take to get them to the game. Our CEO Jeff Cogen says, “If we can get you to watch on TV we think we can get you to a game. If we can get you to one game, we think we can get you to three. If we can get you to three games, we think we can get you be a STH.” They’ve (finally) started marketing to Nashville right—emphasize the experience of the game, because the players and the rules are unfamiliar to the uninitiated. Emphasize that one guy (or in our case, two) whose character tells what we’re about—for Nashville its Weber and Rinne; for Tampa its Marty and Stamkos. And we’ve gone from 4 sellouts to 22 in one year. And never underestimate the power of word of mouth and the hockey community.
The other thing Nashville has done right is to welcome the bloggers with open arms. Mainstream media in Nashville tends to ignore us, so bloggers took over, and they are the best at spreading the love. You guys would know better how the Lightning work with bloggers, but from what I’ve seen its a great relationship. When you add in what seems like a really involved mainstream sports media (Erlendsson and Corcoran are two of my favorite Twitter follows) there, it appears to work.
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
The point I neglected to mention is time. It takes time to develop not only a good team, but a good fan base. It can’t be done overnight. Just because hockey isn’t an instant success somewhere doesn’t mean that it’s an utter failure.
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 19, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Trotz said he expected it would take a generation. We have our first player who grew up in Nashville cheering for the Preds—Blake Geoffrion. Have we arrived yet? :)
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
by CAustin on Jul 19, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Depends on how you define what a “generation” is. And Geoffrion is sort of an exception. He’s got grandfathers in the Hockey Hall of Fame. ;o)
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 19, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Poor Bam-Bam. Always with the references to the pedigree. :)
I like to claim that it’s been almost a generation, as we historians reckon a generation to be about 15 years. But I don’t want to see the franchise to start coasting in this area now. We need the revenue, so keep it up.
Oh, and let’s not forget youth hockey. Youth hockey programs have done a lot to build up “generational” support.
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
Definitely. Which is the tragic part about Atlanta. Their youth hockey associations were just starting to take off.
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 19, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Great write up Cassie
Living in New York and being a Ranger fan all the rangers marketing is stemming around being in New York and being an Original 6 team. Most of the fans are either suits out for a business expense (who take up the good seats down low) and the generational fans whose families have had season tickets for decades. I’m not used to seeing a hockey town be built up from the ground up like the lightning have and like other places have.
On your note about the Islanders, you can also throw the devils in there. While the Devils have had success in recent history they still fail to draw in fans because of their proximity to the Rangers and because no one wants to go to Newark. There’s even the running joke that the only time the Devils can sell out is when they play the Rangers. The Isles and Devils are placed in an almost no win situation and will never establish a strong, unique fanbase because of their proximity to teams like Philly, the Rangers, Boston and even Pittsburgh
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
The Isles and the Devils need to figure out another way to market themselves to the areas they’re in and forget about the City. The Devils should be marketing to Jersey while the Islanders should be marketing to Long Island. Instead, they’re trying to compete with the Rangers directly on their own turf, and obviously that doesn’t really work. They both need to be thinking outside the box to be more successful.
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 19, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I somewhat disagree about the Devils, but your larger point remains true...
I think NJ already has a unique fanbase, and it’s not the strongest in the NHL but at the same time it’s not the weakest.
However, I agree with the point you made about them because I feel that a large portion of NJ fans live outside the Newark area and were attracted to the team by its success. This, of course, does the team no good at all, because these fans are most likely going to see the teams you mentioned above when they play New Jersey or whatever team they live closest to, and will not be going to the Prudential Center or watching many of the games on the local network. Like you said, they’re in an untenable situation because they really can’t put people in the seats when there is a variety of other hockey teams in close proximity that are in better cities.
Really, that part of the country has 1 too many hockey teams. A region can only support so many markets, after all, and while they’ve gotten away with it in the past when all or most of the teams have been competitive, the real solution to the problem would be to move a team out of the area. It was almost Pittsburgh a while back, but now they’re obviously going nowhere in the future.
you're not defending him are you?
are you his mom?
by toppleprone on Jun 7, 2011 9:43 PM EDT
which is why
I think the best thing for the islanders would be to find a new home outside of the new york metro area, try finding a more viable and young market with ownership that is willing to put money into the team
"Don't look now, but there's one too many people in this room and I think it's you." Groucho Marx
In Prust We Trust
"Kovalev would work with Tortorella like a kitty would work in a microwave.
A lot of smoke and desperate clawing at the door. It wouldn’t work. It would just be a big, hot mess." -Dig Deep
Follow me @8kpower
by Kevin Power on Jul 19, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
And
I agree completely, though we both know that’s unlikely.
you're not defending him are you?
are you his mom?
by toppleprone on Jun 7, 2011 9:43 PM EDT
I'm unbanned - Thanks for the class move, Jon. Ask for increased participation and then ban members that drive conversation...
This is a fun, feel good writeup and damn you’re an awfully optimistic person, Cassie (you do always make me feel a little better about the world). However, I don’t believe all major U.S. cities be a hockey town, just like every city in Canada can’t support baseball/football.
I definitely agree with your analysis of the Atlanta situation (disinterested management team and poor marketing leading to failure), but certain cities (namely Phoenix) don’t have convenient excuses. The Coyotes have had star power, regular season success, and even the Great One coaching their team. Tampa may be a warm weather city, but we all know there are countless of Northeast/Northern Mid West transplants in the bay area more than happy to come out and support the team. The demographics in Arizona aren’t as forgiving (less familiarity with the sport to begin with, don’t have the money of northern Cali, or the pure population numbers like SoCal).
Phoenix has had a losing, mismanaged team for almost the duration that they were there. No one wants to go see a team lose. Why pay money for that?
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 19, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
And as Tampa and Nashville fans should know, the uncertainty concerning relocation threats are really really bad for the team. People will stay away if they think their team’s gonna be taken away from them, whether its winning or losing.
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
They’ve made the playoffs the past two years (with exciting teams), they’ve developed impressive young stars, and going to a Coyotes’ game doesn’t exactly break the bank. Have they been managed as well as the Red Wings? Of course not, but they’re nowhere being a Thrashers disaster.
I like your write-up and it’s clearly not lacking in insight, but from a pure logic standpoint it’s extremely difficult to support your view. In the end, the vast majority might be suitable for hockey, but ALL is an almost impossible argument to prove as empirical evidence/logic suggest otherwise. You also have to take into account the financial limitations of certain cities that prevent even the most generous ownerships from cultivating a sustainably exciting on-ice product.
Hate to dissent (since that’s apparently frowned upon in Raw Charge), just thought you’d appreciate an opposing viewpoint.
Dissenting is fine, so long as it’s respectful. Which you’re being right now, so it’s all good. And, obviously I disagree with you.
You’re taking bits and pieces from the Phoenix situation without putting it all together. Yes, they’re doing well right now – but no one’s going to want to see a team that might not be there next season. And yes, they had star power previously – but the team hadn’t made playoffs in nine seasons and no one wants to see a losing team.
You’ve got to have everything pulling together for any business to be successful, in any field. And Phoenix hasn’t had much right going for it since it moved from Winnipeg. Most of their problems have been management/ownership issues – for the duration of its history in Phoenix, pretty much. And now is no exception.
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 19, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
You’re implying that I’ve been disrespectful to you in the past? I may have a bit of an edge, but I’ve always treated the fellow commenters and you with respect. Perhaps I’ve been combative with good ol’ Jonny boy, but only when he’s been outright condescending (kind of a key character trait for him).
Your premise is not reasonable. Any city can be a hockey town? Even overlooking tastes and preferences, you completely ignore the financial aspects of running a team. Maybe every town in America can be a “hockey town” if there’s a willing owner to lose insane amounts of money on a city with residents that simply can’t pay for it (Columbus, Phoenix, Atlanta, Hartford….) Sadly, capitalism and relatively efficient markets prevent this from happening.
I’ll bow out from commenting regularly as I’m not a part of the love fest that is Raw Charge.
any city can be a hockey town
doesn’t mean that any city can support an NHL team. Although I do think Atlanta could’ve. They just attract inept ownership.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (in that order). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Jul 19, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t have to bow out. But you probably do need to tone it down a bit, tho. If the discussion esclates and you realize it and back off, that’s one thing. But trying to incite an argument is something else entirely. Being deliberately combatitive and pushing buttons for fun isn’t exactly in my definition of being respectful.
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 19, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Let me try to change the focus some, if I may
I think the critical point here is that the accepted metrics for determining whether a specific city can support an NHL team, or even support hockey at another level, are flawed. The traditionalists have long said that without an existing population of hockey fans (transplants from colder climates, that is) there is no chance for hockey to take root. Lots of warm weather cities have proven that the way the franchise is able to connect with the community has a much greater impact on the success of the team than demographics. Marketing matters a whole lot and has to be tailored to the audience more in non-traditional markets, and I think this was the point Cassie was making. Not that hockey will succeed in all cities without fail, but that there needs to be a change in the way that hockey executives approach the business side of the equation.
"Its a process"--Erlendsson
Don't Trade Pekka
Part Predator, part Lightning.
but we all know there are countless of Northeast/Northern Mid West transplants in the bay area more than happy to come out and support the team.
While this is true, I would add that a lot of these fans appear to come out to support their old hometown teams. It is difficult to get true Lightning support from these fans as they will switched sides as soon as their home town team comes to play.
“I’ve seen that approach used in the US, but it just doesn’t work here. People need compelling storylines; they need to be drawn into going to a game because of all of the other entertainment options out there.”
Are you saying we Canadians have nothing better to do than sit around waiting for a hockey game?!?!
Well, you’re probably right.
Awesome article.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 19, 2011 11:22 AM EDT reply actions
Dude, when you’re competing against the Gulf beaches for attendance, then you’ve got to do something creative – that’s all I’m saying. ;o)
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 19, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Also, regarding Atlanta being a sports town
How many people make the trek to Athens every Saturday for UGA? I think that stadium holds 90,000. And they always have great turnout for the Chicken Bowl (R.I.P. Peach Bowl). But that just falls back on your general point of marketing. The journalism school is at UGA. So who’s always in the papers (I know many an Atlanta Tech fan upset about this)? Also, Atlanta professional teams have been a beacon of mismanagement in a dark sea of successful college teams. Seriously, the Falcons and Hawks? But they turn out for the Braves.
There are certainly some markets that can’t support an NHL team, for reasons of population or demographics, but Atlanta is not one of them, and people shouldn’t assume that Southern markets are going to be among them. As you mentioned, look at Tampa, Nashville, and Raleigh. Since moving here, I’ve seen more Canes stickers than NC State (not Duke or UNC, but you have to keep hopes reasonable). You just have to have ownership who knows how to run and sell a team.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (in that order). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Jul 19, 2011 11:46 AM EDT reply actions
After our conversation the other day, Cassie, I think I agree with your ultimate premise:
I genuinely believe that any place can be a hockey town – with the right kind of management, and the right type of marketing.How else can you explain Phoenix and the Islanders? I bring up both of those for different reasons.
On Phoenix, they’ve had one of the most devoted fan base in the “non-traditional” hockey markets for quite some time. No where else south of Denver (with exception of Raleigh) do you see more support from the fans than in Phoenix. If the team is going to be unsuccessful and leave town, it’s not because of their fan base.
On the Islanders, for most of the 80s, they were a dominant team. Indeed, they won four Stanley Cups in a row. Unfortunately, a series of managment errors (yes, I’m looking at you, Mike Milbury) and malignant ownership situations have relegated the once-storied franchise to comedy-club levels.
Sure, one of these teams is going to be looking for new real estate soon, but they have a core issue in common: their management and leadership teams off the ice. That error was corrected recently here in Tampa; it wasn’t in Atlanta, and they’re paying the price this off-season.
"[The Lightning] are uncanny. When they want to get a goal, it's like they just snap their fingers or hit a button. They just dial it up. You can see it. It's like they flip a switch. When they are down, it's just like they think, 'we know we are going to score.' I don't know what it is, it leaves [the opposition] flabbergasted." - Mike Knuble, 3 May 2011
Yep. You can’t just plop a hockey team down somewhere and expect it to automatically work no matter what. It’s simply unreasonable to think that. No business anywhere works like that in the US. Not even McDonalds or Starbucks.
Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jul 19, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
True
But I think history has shown traditional business practices aren’t necessarily the way to run a hockey club.
Charles Wang may have been a good businessman and author, but his hockey business sense is terrible. On the other hand—and I admit beforehand the sample size is small—Jeff Vinik’s hands off, non-interference method seems to work best.
"[The Lightning] are uncanny. When they want to get a goal, it's like they just snap their fingers or hit a button. They just dial it up. You can see it. It's like they flip a switch. When they are down, it's just like they think, 'we know we are going to score.' I don't know what it is, it leaves [the opposition] flabbergasted." - Mike Knuble, 3 May 2011

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