Criticism and Community

by CAustin on Jul 27, 2011 1:01 PM EDT

I had been working for a while on a post about leadership and how Roloson has it, but I want to put that aside for a moment to ask a very important question concerning fanship in the internet age.

What is the value of criticism, particularly in a fan-based forum like this one?

It's a simple question with a complex answer, and it leads us to a series of related questions. What are the fans criticizing and how are they expressing it? How do language choices affect a fan community? How much criticism is too much? How little is too little? What exactly do fans accomplish—or perhaps more importantly, hope to accomplish—through criticism of their team in a fan forum? In some cases, debates over fan criticism can place a great deal of stress on and even fracture a fan community. How can that stress be dealt with within the forum so that people don't leave the community, making it weaker and less vibrant than before?*

I believe that healthy fan communities like Raw Charge benefit greatly from two seemingly opposed characteristics. The first is the active participation of people with widely varying opinions and the willingness to discuss and defend their positions. The second is the awareness of the commonalities between members, both on a personal level and on the level of fanship. The debates make the forum interesting but the relationships between participants bring people back and mitigate hard feelings.

I believe that a healthy fan community can foster the airing of dissatisfaction without fear of social ostracism. A healthy fan community will not brand individuals as "bad fans" for disagreeing with decisions by the team or as "Pollyannas" for supporting those decisions. But it is a difficult thing, balancing differing opinions. Creating a community is hard work and it is a task that is never completely accomplished.

So, my question to you, my fellow Lightning fans and Raw Charge members, is this—What is the value of criticism and what's the best way to deal with it? What's your take?

*Note that this question was not prompted by any incident at Raw Charge.

This post was written by a member of the Raw Charge community and doesn't necessarily express the views or opinions of Raw Charge staff.

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We’ve always tried to promote respect here, no matter what you do. You can get your point across without being derogatory, or resort to name-calling, or just acting like a jerk. And it doesn’t matter in what context – we want everyone to be respectful to everyone else first and foremost.

So keeping that in mind, criticism is healthy. Often, people just need to air out their grievences and bond on shared perceived hardships. At its best, it can be a bonding and/or learning experience. At its worst, it can be ugly, closed-minded, and divisive. But most of the time, people are looking for validation. They want to know if they’re being crazy or if others see what’s wrong, too.

The ultimate point of sports fandom is to feel like you belong to something bigger than yourself, and can easily relate to others that feel as you do. It’s about community and family. Every group has their bad apples in some fashion; as we do with our own blood-related families. But we all belong to a team and to each other. And one of the easiest ways to bond with a fellow fan is to commiserate on the awful things going on with their team.

Win or lose, I'm proud of these guys.
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Jul 27, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

This.

As always, Cassie—well put.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Jul 27, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks. :o)

Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Jul 27, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I'll second this

most of the time, people are looking for validation. They want to know if they’re being crazy or if others see what’s wrong, too.

And as long as we stay away from name-calling (and implicit name-calling, by acting as if you’d have to be an idiot to disagree) and the like, all the different viewpoints should help build the community.

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Jul 27, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Great post and great responses..

YOU FRIGGIN’ JERKS!!! …haha

So... if that was just the beginning? Can't friggin' wait to see what's next!! A HUGE Thank You to Mr. Vinik, Steve Yzerman, Guy Boucher & the whole damn Lightning team/organization!! 100% Continued support and respect.

by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Aug 3, 2011 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions

So how should we deal with it when someone crosses the line? Call them out or ignore it? something else?

"I'm a firm believer that in life, if you're happy then happy things will happen for you."--Bernie Parent
Part Predator, part Lightning.

by CAustin on Jul 27, 2011 8:53 PM EDT reply actions

I say call them out, but as politely (and discreetly) as possible

probably best if the mods just take care of things behind the scenes. I heard we’re giving out 15 minute bans. . .

Heel for school, Vol for life!

Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!

by Incipient_Senescence on Jul 28, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Can Tina or John verify that rumor?

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Jul 28, 2011 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions

There’s no set length of a ban.

For some, it’s permanent the moment it happens. For others, it’s subjective (heat of the moment stuff, cool it for a while and I’ll let you back in)

Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Raw Charge.

by John Fontana on Jul 28, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions

TL;DR – Don’t piss John off. :oD

Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Jul 28, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions

It is important to voice disapproval

But to do it as eloquently as possible, and civilly as well.

We’ve been running Raw Charge for what will be 3 years in March, and I’ve been involved with blogging and sports message boards since 1999. I try very hard to be tolerant of people, because any action that isn’t tolerance seems to be taken as heavy-handed, knee-jerk type stuff.

But while Cassie spoke of respect and validation, there are some people who show up who are looking for a rise. They want you to share in their discontent, or they want you to become discontent. And they’ll go to whatever lengths they can until you are either out of the picture on teh site, or until they have swayed you to their opinion.

…and not in an eloquent way.

I’m fine with criticism of the team, but I am much more tolerant of a healthy debate than ignorance, or the simple “he sucks, I hate him”, “he’s worthless, trade him” remark. That last one, especially, gets to me (someone who has no value is valuable enough to be trade-worthy? “Hello, my name is: contradiction”).

Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Raw Charge.

by John Fontana on Jul 28, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions

For me the biggest area of concern is when the healthy criticism becomes unhealthy, and there are a lot of ways that can happen—constant repetition of the same argument, people taking sides, or or folks just plain reacting badly. And this can be on either side of the equation; people can react badly to criticism or to optimism. That’s not even considering outside trolls and people’s responses to them, which are a whole other way that the conversation gets disrupted.

It can be hard to tell when the line gets crossed if its a cumulative effect rather than a specific individual or post. I have in the past stopped reading/posting at a site when the community got toxic, but it was impossible to pinpoint a specific moment when that happened. You certainly couldn’t ban everyone involved, even for a short time.

"I'm a firm believer that in life, if you're happy then happy things will happen for you."--Bernie Parent
Part Predator, part Lightning.

by CAustin on Jul 28, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions

You are missed

It’s not pretty in there today. LOL

by Marcus Newman on Aug 3, 2011 11:55 AM EDT reply actions

Hey Marcus. Thanks for the nice words now and the other day. I’m glad not to get all caught up in the angst. I’ve got enough of that IRL right now. I may be able to come back after a little while, but certainly not right now.

Keep your chin up. We’ll make it with or without Shea, but hopefully (hope, hope, hope) with him. Don’t let the Eeyores get you down.

"I'm a firm believer that in life, if you're happy then happy things will happen for you."--Bernie Parent
Part Predator, part Lightning.

by CAustin on Aug 3, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Eeyores! perfect. :) …and I don’t blame you one bit. I only take it in doses, particularly today.

No worries on Shea. Just life in the big leagues. The dust will inevitably settle and there are positives to be found in any outcome if that’s what you are looking for.

by Marcus Newman on Aug 3, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Have I ever told you that’s my favorite Tootoo pic you have on your icon!? I’ve tried to find a bigger version to put on my desktop, but so far just the little ones, which get grainy when enlarged.

"I'm a firm believer that in life, if you're happy then happy things will happen for you."--Bernie Parent
Part Predator, part Lightning.

by CAustin on Aug 3, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions