Stammergeddon? How about the coming Crosbocalypse?
Due to the lack of stuff going on in the offseason, I'm going to break into your regularly scheduled programming with non-Lightning like things. Though, it could be said to affect the Lightning - or, at least, it's something they can learn from. But this is primarily an NHL-wide issue, despite it being about one man.
Yep, let's talk about Sidney Crosby and his concussion recovery.
Again, there are rumors swirling about that he might not start the season. Followed closely by rumors that he might have to retire due to post-concussion syndrome. And everyone from his team to his agent are denying everything. Naturally
But let's talk about the worst-case scenario. Let's talk about what-if. What happens if Crosby has to retire due to two closely timed concussions?
Make no mistake, most of the blame for that would fall squarely upon his team. Whoever had the final say in clearing him after that accidental clip during a break in play at the Winter Classic in January, that's exactly whose fault this is. It doesn't matter how it happened - although, clearly, Crosby was concussed after accidentally running into David Steckel's shoulder - all that matters is that someone took a look at him and declared him to be okay, when he really wasn't.
Whether that was right after he got off the ice, during the intermission, or after the game, that person - whoever made that decision - could have potentially ended a very bright, promising, and potentially record-setting career.
And not only did they declare him okay to play the rest of that game, if he was even looked at during the game, but they declared him okay to play in the next where he suffered a second concussion. The first game where the concussion happened, you could almost - almost - forgive since there was so much going on and he probably wasn't looked at until after the game was over. But letting him play in the second game? That was seriously poor judgment by the Pittsburgh Penguins.
The other person who is at fault, though to a lesser degree, is Crosby himself. Shrugging off getting smacked in the head, even if it's your first concussion, is no way to take care of yourself. Particularly since the NHL now goes through such pains to education teams and players about concussions. You want to have a long playing career? Then don't act like you think you're invincible. Get looked at if you're in pain or something doesn't seem right. Better to be safe than sorry.
I've been an athlete, so I know how they are - because I've done the exact same stupid stuff myself. I once talked my high school basketball coach into letting me play when I had a sprained left foot and a sprained right ankle. Since both feet were affected, and I couldn't really limp, I was pretty convincing. And the coach was easily convinced, too. You really can't trust these guys when they say they're okay. Especially professional athletes of contact sports at the highest levels, since they have to have an insanely high pain threshold to play like they do.
You see how they are in playoffs - you have to be dead to not play. That's not a badge of honor, and that's not being tough. That's just being stupid. If you want to be able to walk unaided when you're 65 years old, then have someone look at your knee after you tweak it to make sure it's not something serious. It's no wonder that the average NHL career is something like five years.
And Crosby's teammates bear some of the brunt of the blame as well. All you have to do is look at a guy to know he's not alright; it's usually pretty obvious. Keeping your mouth shut because it's none of your business, or because you don't want to tattle, isn't being a good teammate. That's just being afraid to speak up when necessary. You're supposed to look out for your teammates, even when they don't want you to.
And then the coaching staff not wanting to pull their best player, even for a marquee event, is irresponsible. Assuming that they even knew what was going on in the first place, of course. Lots of things happen in dressing rooms that the coaches don't find out about. Which, again, goes back to the training staff and the players.
And how about the ultimate scenario of everyone knowing everything? Crosby saying he's okay, teammates - knowing that he's not - going along with it, coaches - knowing that he's not - are afraid to pull him, trainers - not saying too much because they don't want to cause waves - letting it go, the GM - giving into pressures to keep the marquee player in the league in a marquee game - doesn't say anything, and NHL officials in charge knowing what's really going but taking everyone at face value. That's not a conspiracy theory or anything; that's just how these things can sometimes go. (I have a friend who's an athletic trainer at the college level, and you'd be surprised just how willfully ignorant and/or flat-out in denial people can get around star players and their injuries.) If everyone knew, then everyone's to blame.
Personally, I believe that Crosby's probably all right and that people are just panicking needlessly. The post-concussion symptoms that he's supposedly having are probably just regular workout effects. Who doesn't get light-headed sometimes when lifting weights, after all? He won't be the same player when he comes back, however. Lightning fans saw how that went with Mike Smith after he tried playing through a concussion. Though I do think he'll likely start the season as usual.
Still, something to keep in mind will be additional concussions for Crosby - because there will be more. So, next time, will his team immediately pull him out and keep him out if he gets another one, no matter what the situation? Or will they ignore it again, hoping that they're wrong and putting his career in jeopardy again?
And will any other team learn from this lesson and keep track of their players better, regardless of who they are and how important the game happens to be?
The league-wide concussion issue isn't entirely the players' fault. In the case of Sidney Crosby, there were likely a lot of enablers either keeping quiet or encouraging him to play after the first one happened. And those were just the people on his own team. Otherwise, why have him play in the very next game after that against Tampa Bay, right?
And with those kind of people looking after a guy, who needs enemies?
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The idea of Crosby having to retire at 24 scares me
What a waste that would be. And I’m with you 100% on the stupidity of not admitting there’s a problem when you know there’s a problem, no matter what your role in the organization is. I think it goes beyond the not admitting it, though. A lot of guys are praised and rewarded for playing through it. I know for a fact that Barry Trotz lobbied to get Ryan Suter on the US Olympic team by saying that even though Trotz knew Suter was hurt, whenever he’d ask, Suter would say, “I’m fine.” That was the selling point, the reason that Suter was worth bringing on. Denying injury is that much a part of the culture. Now, that likely wasn’t a concussion (although we’ll never know for sure) but the response is the same. Paul Kariya’s story of post-concussion symptoms and their effect on him was jolting, not because he had symptoms, but because he was so angry about them not being addressed. We need more guys to get angry about it, to remind us that it really isn’t fair or right to expect them to not treat medical conditions. Because as much as the team is at fault for letting Crosby play when he shouldn’t, the fans are at fault for expecting it of him.
"I'm a firm believer that in life, if you're happy then happy things will happen for you."--Bernie Parent
Part Predator, part Lightning.
by CAustin on Aug 23, 2011 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Which is why I’m spreading around the blame. While high hits are a problem, so is the culture of denying injuries just to appear tough. Coaches are a big part of that, but so are teammates keeping their mouths shut. Yeah, some coaches will ignore players if they say someone’s injured, and often trainers will address what’s wrong with the player and then leave telling the coach to the player’s discretion. You’ve got to start somewhere, tho.
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of blame...
Why, 8 months after the games (vs Caps and vs Bolts), is all the talk in the news about the “hit the Lightning player” put on Crosby putting him in this situation? Hedman didn’t bang Crosby into the boards, but yet because he didn’t play a minute of hockey after the game against the Bolts, the Lightning are getting all the press for knocking him out of the game. Did Hedman’s hit put Crosby into the boards? Sure—but Steckel’s hit was the genesis of the head trauma situation.
No talk of Steckel’s culpability—and no criticism of Steckel’s comment that he didn’t see Crosby.
That’s perhaps the most frustrating thing about hockey to me—the uneven playing field in press coverage and the quality of that coverage.
By the way, great article as always, Cassie.
"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
Is this a joke? Steckel took way more criticism for his contact than Hedman did. To the point where he was still answering interview questions about it after his trade to NJD at the deadline.
J.P.: You might be the king of all geeks here…
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Aug 23, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Hedman didn’t bang Crosby into the boards
You might want to check out youtube again. Though it wasn’t a savage, terrible hit by Hedman, it’s a classic 2 minute boarding call.
And as Alz points out, Steckel took the brunt of the fan criticism and attention for everything.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
Being in hockey deadland (Kansas) I saw alot more articles (National MSM/High Volume Blogosphere) referencing the Hedman hit than the Steckel hit..
But I think it’s much more a case of a combination of the Hedman being the second (agreeing with Cassie’s sentiment) and knock out concussion that the Hedman hit got more press than which players/teams were involved. I think secondary is the notion that player’s brains are made of the same stuff Gumby is made up of and that Crosby was alright after the 1st hit, so it must have been the second hit alone that knock him out for the season, a notion that concussion research has clearly debunked but alot of ‘old school’ fans cling to.
In the case of Sidney Crosby, there were likely a lot of enablers either keeping quiet or encouraging him to play after the first one happened. And those were just the people on his own team. Otherwise, why have him play in the very next game after that against Tampa Bay, right?
And with those kind of people looking after a guy, who needs enemies?
I’m not really sure if you guys understand the situation.
Crosby, though clearly dazed from the 24/7 footage he felt capable to play the 3rd period. Anyone who’s ever played hockey at any sort of level has ‘seen stars’ after a hit or collision.
The Penguins had the day off following the classic, then they practiced on Jan 3rd and 4th. Crosby participated in both practices. Then he played on Jan 5 (and took the Hedman hit). But he still took shifts after the Hedman hit. In fact, he even flew to Montreal and all signs were go for him to play until he determined something isn’t right. No one was “keeping quiet” or “encouraging him to play” as much as he just kept trudging forward until everyone realized he was not healthy.
Read that narrative, and it makes yours sound extreme. The Penguins have the best player in the game, why would they risk him? Given how patient they always were with his other injuries (lingering groin and high-ankle injuries) they have not pushed him. Why take a chance with the head?
Answer- they didn’t because they didn’t know. Because Crosby himself didn’t even recognize/realize the extent of the damage for days/weeks after the incidents. And, as we’ve learned, that is quite common and scary about concussions- it’s not always immediate to tell (unlike say a broken arm or something) and the effects pile up with multiple traumas.
If the Penguins could go back and do it again, would they change how they handled it? Probably. But is it their fault? I wouldn’t be so quick to point fingers, especially without first hand knowledge of what actually happened. The player felt fine enough to play, he was evaluated and continued to play/practice. It was a mistake, but definitely not a negligant or intentional move on part of team or player.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
by Hooks Orpik on Aug 23, 2011 1:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I used to play hockey myself, and I’ve had a concussion, so I know what you’re talking about. But, the point is that it was obvious to me, as I was watching the replay, that Crosby was concussed. The fact of the matter is, concussion symptoms aren’t that hard to figure out. In fact, the basic test is to look at the pupils to see if one is larger than the other. So you’re not going to sit a guy out, just in case? That seems pretty irresponsible to me, especially if it’s your star player.
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
But, the point is that it was obvious to me, as I was watching the replay, that Crosby was concussed.
Congrats for being more medically astute than doctors and professionals. I mean, this is just arm-chair quarterbacking at it’s finest right here, well after the fact.
It’s not irresponsible, it’s a collision, high impact sport that moves quickly. Things happen, mistakes are made. To go on about calling the team an "enabler " to continue to play a player knowing his head is screwed up is ridiculous. Especially for this player.
I’m not trying to be harsh, but your stance seems far-fetched and lacks some of the basic tenets of what actually happened.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
And you seem pretty defensive and lacking perspective. Just because a team official says something, doesn’t mean that it’s true. And just because I’m a fan doesn’t mean that I didn’t see something. Perhaps you ought to take a big step back and try for a bit more objectivity instead of attacking a person when they’re critical of your team.
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
You can be critical of the team all you’d like. It just looks foolish to suggest they knew Crosby sustained head damage and then encouraged or allowed him to continue to play.
And it’s literally laughable that his teammates should have caught something. If Sid himself felt good enough to practice 2 times and then play a game, how are they supposed to catch he was momentarily groggy after a big hit?
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
Ah. So now I’m foolish and an idiot for having an opinion. Thanks.
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Not for having an opinion, but I think you took a lot of jumps and leaps without close examination of what actually happerend. You’re entitled to think what you want, I was hoping to shed a little light on things but it came off harsh. My mistake, carry on.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
Yeah and that aside, it’s ridiculous to say that coaches, teammates, doctors, managers all conspired to force an injured player to play in largely meaningless January games.
Although I must admit the teammates line did make me laugh just for the sheer asinine notion of it all.
With this kind of writing and research going on, who needs facts and truth?
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
Okay, now.
Cassie didn’t say it was a conspiracy. In fact she said it wasn’t. So let’s not exaggerate what’s actually written here to make a point. As she wrote, the worst case scenario is that everyone knew and looked the other way.
If concussions are so hard to figure out, what’s the point of the quiet room examination (instituted, I should remind readers, after and because of this incident)? The point is that medical testing, even immediately after the collision, can show things that the patient cannot yet feel. If this had been a car crash and not a sports collision, this testing would have been done at the emergency room immediately, with instructions to have follow ups in the next 24 hours and beyond. The patient’s lack of symptoms is not relevant to the medical decision. Why is this not done routinely in sports? Why do we expect players to play through it?
Everyone involved, from the players to the trainers to the coaches to the management, live and work in a culture that denies the seriousness of head injuries as well as any other type of injury. It’s an attitude, not a conspiracy. And it’s a dangerous attitude, one that harms players and has the potential to harm the sport and the bottom line of the league and the teams. It is something to take seriously, not to excuse away.
"I'm a firm believer that in life, if you're happy then happy things will happen for you."--Bernie Parent
Part Predator, part Lightning.
by CAustin on Aug 23, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This from an unbiased Pittsburgh fan.
Just ensuring full disclosure.
"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
A Pittsburgh fan who was in the press box for the Winter Classic and is in touch with what actually happened that week, you might add for total disclosure.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
OK
Now you’re just tooting your own horn. You’re making it harder and harder for me to believe you’re giving objective analysis.
you're not defending him are you?
are you his mom?
by toppleprone on Jun 7, 2011 9:43 PM EDT
So you’re in a game, beer league or whatever, and you can’t tell when a guy gets hit in the head if he’s concussed? And when you get back to the bench or the dressing room, you’re going to take him at his word that he’s okay? Alrighty then. Glad you’re okay with that, because I sure as hell wouldn’t be.
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Glad you have a medical degree and can diagnose a problem from 30 seconds of video a whopping 8 months after it has happened and a lot of foresight is known.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
And glad to know that your medical experience tops mine, doctor.
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He's just trolling now.
Has yet to offer any valid criticism of the idea that more care ought to have been taken.
"I'm a firm believer that in life, if you're happy then happy things will happen for you."--Bernie Parent
Part Predator, part Lightning.
by CAustin on Aug 23, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would suggest some reading comprehension. I’ve offered plenty if you could find it.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
Ahhh… you mean the “I was in the press box so I know better” commentary.
Okay, then, since you’re in the loop and I am obviously not, why was he not tested after an obvious hit to the head? Why was he not tested again the next day? I made this point earlier, but you found it more fun to take potshots at the author than to address this issue. Why wasn’t the basic medical protocol for any other type of collision involving a known hit to the head followed? Hint: the patient’s lack of symptoms is not the correct answer.
"I'm a firm believer that in life, if you're happy then happy things will happen for you."--Bernie Parent
Part Predator, part Lightning.
by CAustin on Aug 23, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s tough for you to be wrong when you use hindsight to form your arguments. OMG his teammates should have said something!!!1
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
I’m not saying that I’m right or wrong. This is purely my opinion – it’s an opinion piece. And you disagree with my opinion, which is fine.
But it doesn’t warrant the abuse you’re dishing out. Tell me, do you heavily imply to your own commenters that they’re stupid and unobservant? Or do you just reserve that for your fellow SB Nation bloggers on their blogs?
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the debate here has escalated a bit from all sides but Hooks has a very good reputation even on Japers (the Caps blog) for having legit discussions. It’s rare to go into enemy territory and come out with respect, so maybe we can reset the terms and address the solid arguments on both sides.
J.P.: You might be the king of all geeks here…
by Alz Well That Ends Well on Aug 23, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I’m sorry if it came off harsh or abrasive, I see a lot of stuff these days- rogue reports, opinion pieces, etc. I was just trying to add some more information in hopes you could get a fuller spectrum to base your arguments around.
Didn’t intend to belittle you here, but from re-reading this I can see how that could be how it’s received. I was attempting to quantify my exasperation of the case you laid out, which as written still sounds pretty non-sensical to me. But hey, more power to ya.
"You come at the King, you best not miss."
I can understand a bit of the overreaction due to the constant barrage of Crosby rumors going around. The whole Stamkos re-signing thing was a similar for us, tho much shorter, episode. It drove me nutty, so I can sympathize.
My entire point of this post was to show that there’s often far more going on with concussions than guys throwing high hits, nothing more. Crosby was just an example, not a case study, which is why I didn’t cite sources and get into great detail. I wanted to opine about the culture going on, not the Penguins specifically. So sorry if you took it to be about your team and not about the NHL generally. His example just happened to be convenient is all.
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we just need a lot more awareness of how to handle head injuries
they need to be treated very, very carefully.
I mentioned this to my Dad, by the way, who is in medicine, and he said that anybody still experiencing concussion symptoms eight months after the hit should immediately retire or risk becoming a vegetable at 40. That is, of course, provided that the rumors are true and he’s still experiencing them. But when it’s that serious, that it risks your career or the quality of 2/3 of your life. . . we need to be WAY more careful.
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Aug 23, 2011 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
People just don’t think that far ahead. You don’t stop feeling invincible until something major happens, or you’re in your late 20s. Until then, you’ve just got to hope that the people around these guys are helping them make better decisions about their health. And, to me, it doesn’t usually look that way.
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a tough call
Playing while injured is indeed stupid as you mentioned, but unfortunately it is al so something that is ingrained in athletes in every sport at every level. There are multiple reasons why they do it, from thinking their invulnerable to not wanting to let the team down to the fear of being seen as weak.
Think of the reaction Jay Cutler faced when he left a playoff game early with a legitimate knee injury. Tons of scorn were heaped in his direction for being a “quitter”. No athlete wants to have a reputation as a pansy so what if he sees a few stars or has a headache for three days straight. Better to downplay the symptoms and hope it goes away than have to read in the newspaper that you lack heart.
I agree that the medical staff has to do more to keep an injured player off the ice, and hopefully, some of the measures the NHL has taken post Crosby-gate will help them.
by Lightningfan7609 on Aug 23, 2011 5:38 PM EDT reply actions
My concern is any player in a similar situation to Crosby’s being thrown out into a game situation far too early. I can understand that you don’t want to lose your spot on the team by sitting out. Jobs are competitive, after all. And in most sports, respect is earned by being tough. So there’s a fine line to walk there. The culture probably won’t be changed any time soon, but you’ve got to start somewhere.
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Which the NHL recognizes, hence the new guidelines instituted.
by Lightningfan7609 on Aug 23, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
there's a lot to be said for playing through pain
but we need to draw a cultural divide between “pain” and “head injury”
Heel for school, Vol for life!
Bolts, Preds, Canes (childhood team, home state team, hometown team). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity!
by Incipient_Senescence on Aug 24, 2011 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
There are multiple reasons why they do it, from thinking their invulnerable to not wanting to let the team down to the fear of being seen as weak.
After I read this I immediately thought of Cutler. Glad to see you had the same thought process. And this shows an aspect of the media is hindering this concussion issue. Cutler was ripped apart for sitting out; is it so far-fetched to think that the Pens, Crosby, and even the NHL would have been derided for letting Crosby sit out for a month or so following the Steckel hit?
And I know I’m late to the argument and everything, but I have to side on Cassie’s side on the Hooks-Cassie argument, solely because Hooks, you were suggesting that the Pens did everything they could to evaluate Sid after the Steckel hit, which simply wasn’t the case. And before you rip me for being an armchair doctor, I think it’s common sense that the Pens are at fault if the guy got hurt on the very next big hit he took.
Also, you made fun of Cassie’s “teammates should know” idea. Why? Have you played team sports? If you have you should know as well as anyone that when a teammate is hurt you can see it in their play. I was hurt myself last spring during hockey. I tried to play through it but I just lost all my explosiveness, and I could hear people behind me saying, “What’s up with Dustin? He’s lost a step, he looks like he’s fighting just to skate”. You don’t think the Pens players weren’t saying things like “Man, something’s wrong with Sid, he looks kinda lost out there and on the bench, he must’ve really been shaken up by that hit”. Is it their responsibility to know that Crosby had a potentially career-ending injury? No. Did they know that he wasn’t quite right? I’m willing to bet yes. And for you to crush the entire article on the one part you thought was horribly thought out is just wrong, especially when the part you crushed wasn’t as poorly thought out as you said.
you're not defending him are you?
are you his mom?
by toppleprone on Jun 7, 2011 9:43 PM EDT
Yeah this is a comment made 8 months in hindsight but its not a bad idea to have some precautionary testing done and I dunno…maybe sit out a game just to be careful?
Or else you kill the goose that laid the golden eggs.
The unaimed arrow never misses
Head Coordinator of the Weaver for Capn campaign
Find me on Twidduh And look at my Marmots
by Chris S Roberts on Aug 23, 2011 5:49 PM EDT reply actions
I think you can’t be too careful. It certainly can’t hurt, anyways.
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Jeez
The one Tuesday I remember to come on, their is no open thread. Unless this is it, haha? At work, so guess I should be doing work anyways. Actually listening to a baseball game on the radio… god, I miss hockey! At least it’s the Tigers vs Rays.. GO Tigers!!
When it comes to Osgood, I agree with D-Mac 100%.. (http://youtu.be/_BJCxdkoIxc) I'm sure the same goes for Drapes. R.I.P. Grind Line!
by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Aug 23, 2011 7:28 PM EDT reply actions
Relating to Crosby..
As much as I don’t like him or the Penguins.. would rather have him playing, than not. Think the game is better for it, most the time. To end his career this early, would be an absolute shame. Hopefully ol’ Cindy is able to put this behind him, once and for all.
When it comes to Osgood, I agree with D-Mac 100%.. (http://youtu.be/_BJCxdkoIxc) I'm sure the same goes for Drapes. R.I.P. Grind Line!
by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Aug 23, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
But we have an open thread going on….
Counting down the days until players report to training camp. Is it September yet?
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Aug 23, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions

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