Question of the Week: Whose numbers will never be worn again?

by Clark J Brooks on Sep 9, 2011 8:29 AM EDT in Lightning Franchise news

When Lightning fans get their first glimpse inside the newly renovated St. Pete Times Forum, there are liable to be a lot of strained necks as they look all around their brand new old home. One area that will remain unchanged is an empty area in the rafters that would be just ideal for the hanging of banners with retired players numbers on them.

As the Lightning steam towards their 20th anniversary next season, team highlights and individual accomplishments will get a lot of attention. And now that some of our long-time favorites are closer to the end of their careers than the beginning, it's not too early to speculate which Lightning players might eventually receive that ultimate individual recognistion from their team, the retirement of their number.

The first name you think of might be Dave Andreychuk. Although a majority of his lengthy NHL career was played elsewhere, he set records with Tampa Bay (notably, the career mark for power play goals) and he was the captain of the Stanley Cup winning team in '04. Expected to be inducted into the hockey hall of fame eventually, he remains with the organization and nobody's worn number 25 since he retired.

Of course, nobody's worn number 93 since Darren Puppa played for the Bolts either, so...

What do you think? Are Vincent Lecavalier and Martin St. Louis shoe-ins for this honor? Anybody who came before? Anybody since? Below are some answers from the Raw Charge staff. Let us know what you have to say in the comments section.

Nolan Whyte - Staff writer / Frozen Sheets of Hockey

I would say the only two guys who really deserve to have their sweaters retired are still wearing them-- that being Martin St. Louis and Vincent Lecavalier. These guys are the Lightning for the last ten years, plain and simple.

I know people will hoot and holler for Captain Dave Andreychuk to have his number in the rafters, but that would sit funny with me. Although he was integral to the Cup team and helping that group to mature, he was really only a player here for three full seasons (his final post-lockout half-season doesn't count for me... he should have rode off into the sunset, but full points for effort). He made his mark in the league in other places, even though he lifted his only Cup in Tampa. I know he's insanely popular and continues to do huge PR things for the club, and he deserves to be recognized, but I think retiring a number should be based more on on-ice performance than popularity.

The only other player who should even merit consideration would be Brian Bradley, who was a central piece of the expansion era team, playing six seasons before post-concussion issues ended his career (sound familiar? That's right, concussions existed before Sidney Crosby). Most of the team's scoring records were Brian's before Marty and Vinnie came along and destroyed them.

Matt Amos - Staff Writer / Don't Trade Vinny

Is there any doubt? Rick freaking Tocchet. Duhhhhhh. Oh, ahem. Sorry bout that.

To answer the question for real, and while some may not agree, I think Dave Andreychuk undoubtedly deserves to have his number retired by the Lightning.

While it's true that most of his offensive accomplishments were achieved elsewhere, the fact remains that the Lightning would not have won their lone cup without him. And I always thought that number retiring was a team's way of showing gratitude and appreciation for a player who raised the team's level. I think it would be an absolute shame not to see Andy's number in the St. Pete Times forum.

That being said, at this point, I've got two others. My man crushes. Marty and Vinny. If Stamkos sticks around and stays healthy, he definitely gets added to the mix, but as of now, no one has provided more offense, leadership, unforgettable moments, highlights, and trade rumors to the Lightning than those two.

I don't think we have to worry about any of these three getting shot down by the Lightning, they're pretty good about honoring the team's past studs.

John Fontana - Managing Editor

I can tell you with certainty right now that Cory Cross’s #4 will be retired. I’m absolutely sure of it!

Yes, his number will be retired. But it won’t be because of his efforts on defense while wearing said number. It’ll be because of the next guy who wore the number: Vincent Lecavalier.

There’s a love-hate relationship among the fans with Lecavalier. Some see him as the face of the franchise. Others see him as overpaid, under-performing and unworthy. Whatever the case, the team captain will be clearing the 1,000 games-played threshold late this season (barring injury). He’ll be crossing the 800 career point plateau too.

But his off-ice efforts are as noteworthy as his on-ice performance. He’s invested millions in the Bay area, helping found the Lecavalier Pediatric Cancer and Blood Disorder center at All Childrens Hospital. He’s put a face to a team that long lacked an identity. He’s also kept Tampa Bay relevant in the "pipe-dream, pulled-out-of-our-ass" trade rumor department for more than a decade.

Of course, Martin St. Louis’ #26 will hang from the rafters, too. It’s a certainty. But trying to gauge who else from the team at current – even Steven Stamkos – will get his number retired is a crap-shoot. Anything can happen between now and then.

Poll

Whose number deserves to eventually be the first one retired by the Tampa Bay Lightning?

Dave Andreychuk #25

34 votes

Brian Bradley #19

14 votes

Vincent Lecavalier #4

50 votes

Steven Stamkos #91

1 votes

Martin St. Louis #26

104 votes

Somebody, but none of the above

2 votes

Nobody. The Lightning have yet to have a player worthy of that honor.

7 votes

212 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 32 comments | 0 recs |

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Comments

If they had to be retired now, #26 and #4 get hoisted to the rafters.

If Stamkos stays with the team for the very long-term, if he matures exactly how it appears he will, if his career isn’t cut short by injury, if he continues to score regularly, then his number will go up to the rafters, too. That’s a lot of “ifs” but I think it will happen.

The number that will get retired that no one is talking about is, of course, Olaf Kolzig’s #37. What a legacy! His number needs to be hoisted to the rafters, not as an homage to a great career, but what can happen when “has beens” try to play past their “best if used by” date on their wrapper.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Sep 9, 2011 9:00 AM EDT reply actions

I missed the deadline to reply AGAIN! Sorry guys. I was fighting a migraine.

The guys who are going to have their numbers retired are the players that you know no one will ever wear that number again. Has anyone worn #25 since Dave Andreychuk retired? Has anyone worn #19 since Brad Richards left? Would anyone wear #4 after Vinny retires? Or #26 after Marty retires? It not necessarily a matter of who the fans think are worthy, but who the players think are worthy. If no one’s touched #25 since Andreychuk retired – not even prospects – then his number is definitely a candidate. I can’t imagine any new player being okay with wearing #4 or #26 for this team ever again.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Sep 9, 2011 10:00 AM EDT reply actions

is Dominic Moore currently, but Veilleux wore it in 2009-2010.

No one has worn #25 for the Lightning since Andy.

(source: Hockey Reference.com)

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Sep 9, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t know what happened there—I had typed that “number 19 is Dominic Moore…”

I don’t know how it got changed to “1. is”. Bizarre.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Sep 9, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Auto format is never as helpful as it bills itself to be. :o\

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Sep 9, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

I think management has a say

Even if a number isn’t OFFICIALLY retired, I think management can tell a player that a number is off limits.
Again introducing more apples and oranges, the only number the Bucs have officially retired is Lee Roy Selmon’s #63 but nobody has worn #47, #55 or #99 since John Lynch, Derrick Brooks and Warren Sapp left. On the other hand, Jeff Conine was THE player most identified with the Florida Marlins since they started in ’93 through their first title in ’97. But Mike Lowell wore his #19 the very first year he was gone.

by Clark J Brooks on Sep 9, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't even consider Brian Bradley #19

That is Brad Richards. I’d sooner retire the number for the Bradmaster than retire it for Brian.

Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Raw Charge.

by John Fontana on Sep 9, 2011 10:54 AM EDT reply actions

Just the fact that Richards was okay with wearing it after Bradley left should tell you everything you need to know.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Sep 9, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I think Richey is the opposite side of the coin to Andy when talking about retiring numbers.

The argument (discussed by the RC writing staff) against retiring #25 is Andy did most of his offensive work before donning a Lightning sweater. On the other hand, one could argue the opposite argument for Richey. He had a phenomenal amount of playing success with a Lightning jersey on his back, but has moved on.

No doubt the choices to retire the 19 and 25 sweater numbers are emotional ones—but decisions I’m not sure need be emotional. In my mind, a retired number hanging from the home team’s rafters recongizes long and loyal “service” to the home team or (in a very few cases) a tragic loss to the team. In my mind (emphasized to thwart any potential spears thrown my way) neither Andy nor Richey fill those requirements.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Sep 9, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

You could ask the question of “should the Avalanche retire Ray Bourque’s number?” and get the same answer. Which means I agree. I think a better case could be made for retiring Richard’s #19 than Andreychuk’s #25. But as much as Andreychuk meant to that 2004 Cup-winning team, he doesn’t mean as much to the Lightning. There’s a distinct difference there.

"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks

Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.

by Cassie McClellan on Sep 9, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Apples and oranges maybe...

…but the Devil Rays retired Wade Boggs’ #12 after he played all of 213 games for them. There’s no question that Andreychuk did more for the Lightning than Boggs did for the Rays.

by Clark J Brooks on Sep 9, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions

My point was really more “Bradley shouldn’t have 19 retired for him” more than “Retire 19 for Richards”

Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Raw Charge.

by John Fontana on Sep 9, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Understand.

Consider my comments as pre-emptive in nature.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Sep 12, 2011 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Just had this conversation on the boards where people are too cheap to buy tickets to Bucs games and cry about the blackout rule.

But as much as I love Super Dave, I’m not sure he put in the time to have his number retired here. Same goes with Brad Richards. I’m sure if they hadn’t made that mistake by trading him, his jersey would be raised up into the rafters, but by the time he retires, he will have spent more time playing for other teams.

Their names are etched into the Stanley Cup under the team name Tampa Bay Lightning, that’s gonna have to do.

Buc Nation: Where when you post your opinion, it will deleted.

by bucnut1 on Sep 9, 2011 9:00 PM EDT reply actions

When I mentioned Brad and #19, it was more of a point to make a case against Brian Bradley having 19 retired for him… Not so much a case for Brad to have the number retired for him instead. Like you say, it’d be different if he were still around/had stuck around.

Andreychuk having his number retired here would be akin to Boggs having his number retired with teh Rays. That’s the argument that remains valid to this day. Wade Boggs never should have had his number retired, but the franchise was desperate for some good PR.

Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Raw Charge.

by John Fontana on Sep 9, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions

But honestly, I feel the same about Bradley too.

To retire a jersey for somebody who hasn’t played most (preferably all) of their career here, and done some amazing things, just cheapens the honor.

Buc Nation: Where when you post your opinion, it will be deleted.

by bucnut1 on Sep 9, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions

I get you

Bradley’s distinction with the Lightning is the fact he blossomed as a player in TB after starting his career elsewhere. He’s still part of the organization, but that doesn’t mean jack when it comes to his playing number.

Just because a player is the first star for the team doesn’t mean that they should have their number retired.

Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Raw Charge.

by John Fontana on Sep 10, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions

I would go with 25, 26, 4 for now

Andy was the captain when the Bolts won their first cup. I think adding to the significance and the sentimentality was the fact that it was Dave’s first cup as well. Considering he retired here and remains with the Lightning, I’d say he deserves to be recognized.

Vinny and Marty have obviously been the cornerstones for many years. Their point totals and records speak for themselves as the two best players in Lightning history to date. Stammer may reach this one day as well, but he’s still too young to be talking about this at this point.

Bradley and Richards would probably have their numbers retired if it wasn’t for the each other sharing the number. Bradley set many team records that stood until Marty and Vinny came, and was one of the key parts in the Lightning’s early years, so I think he would probably be deserving. Richards, although he won the Conn Smythe, I’m not so sure about. Yes, he was a key cog in the Cup run and a major player for several years…but so was Dan Boyle, and I doubt many think of Dan when number retiring comes up.

by JGator45 on Sep 10, 2011 1:21 AM EDT reply actions

No way, IMHO

Andy played for the Bolts for 17.3% of his career (312 games for the Lightning, 1801 games in his total career—including playoffs).

His performance for the Bolts in 03-04 was superb and certainly worth remembering, but not worth of number retirement.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Sep 12, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions

marty will be first because he will be the first to retire a bolt.
i wouldnt mind them doing tribute nights or one for the cup team next yr as well as the original team for the 20th anniversary.
then vinny will be next.
end of story.

by TomK91 on Sep 10, 2011 3:48 PM EDT reply actions

Marty and Vinny.

Nothing against Dave, but i don’t believe he should have his number retired. I understands he was the captain when we won the cup, but whats the matter? Khabibulin was our goalie for the cup, does that make his number worth retiring? Of course not.

Marty and Vinny on the other hand have been the heart and soul of this team for many years and will be for more to come.

by EGAR! on Sep 12, 2011 2:18 PM EDT reply actions

No love for Dan Boyle, Brad Richards, or Pavel Kubina?

by Alexander Calloway on Sep 12, 2011 3:04 PM EDT reply actions

Not a lack of love. Just a consensus of unworthiness.

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Sep 13, 2011 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions

And Dave Andreychuk is?

by Alexander Calloway on Sep 14, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Unworthy? IOr Worthy?

In the poll, he was deemed worthy as an option. In discussion, we’ve made it a point to say why he isn’t worthy. He’s admired, he’s endeared to the fans, but to have #25 neer worn again because of his contribution to the team? Eh…

That goes for #22, that goes for #19 (see above discussion) and that goes for #13

Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Raw Charge.

by John Fontana on Sep 16, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Darren Puppa?

For no other reason than to be able to say the name Darren Puppa a few more times.

R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
Part Predator, part Lightning.

by CAustin on Sep 13, 2011 8:12 AM EDT reply actions

No goalie bias there at all…are you going to suggest the stalwart Marc Denis, as well? :-)

#sarcasmheavysarcasm

"The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect"
- Smith in Orwell's 1984

by MTBoltFan on Sep 13, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions

Well, what do you want from me? :)

It’s not like I can add anything to the Andreychuk debate. That was way before my time. Anyone who doesn‘t think #26 is gonna be retired is not really a Bolts fan. VL4 may generate a tiny bit more controversy, but that’s gonna come down to debating the standards for having your number retired and just how nitpicky folks want to be. Stamkos is too young for us to be having this conversation at all. And Richards is associated with the Stars for me (again timing and having lived in Dallas).

But really, who wouldn’t want to go around saying “Darren Puppa” for a few weeks? Over and over. It’s huge fun. Darren Puppa, Darren Puppa, Darren Puppa. :)

R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
Part Predator, part Lightning.

by CAustin on Sep 13, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions