For fans expecting a quick-fix, recent Lightning history won't repeat itself
by John Fontana on Jan 16, 2012 6:20 PM EST
in Lightning and NHL Rumors
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The Tampa Bay Lightning season is in shambles and the natives are restless. You can find fans crowing for some type of change across the online social sphere.
"Fire everybody" is on the table, really. General Manager Steve Yzerman may have been hired in the first place to begin a long-term building process and Guy Boucher hired as the man to oversee the team on-ice during this long-term development. But Yzerman has only overseen one draft class with his own scouts reporting back to him. He's had a total of two off-seasons to mold the roster to his liking, and the end results have been a single season of success, and a partial season of failing at this point.
The response to this, the chorus of jeers from members of the mob, is that Yzerman needs to pull the rug out from under everyone and everything to improve the situation at hand in Tampa immediately.
Like, now.
Everyone, sans Steven Stamkos (patron saint of the snap-shot) is on the table for trade discussion. Everyone should be dealt and whatever gained is an improvement over what is currently in place on the Lightning roster.
And, for good measure, Guy Boucher's months-long term as the most tenured head coach in the Southeast Division should come to a close. Eastern Conference Finals in 2010-11? Nice, but what have you done for the franchise lately, Guy? You're too nice in the media, and your scar is too... scarry. The Bolts need change! The Bolts need change!
What the Bolts need is for the fan base to take a proverbial chill pill and quit with the foaming-mouthed panic.
Really, this is "Stammergeddon" all over again. The panacea for the 2011 summer's anxiety-filled delirium was for Stamkos to be signed - immediately, for whatever he wanted, however long he wanted, at any player-personnel cost to the franchise -to assuage fan insecurity. And at this moment, there has to be change, immediate and profound change, because Year Two of a long-term building process should have been so much grander than it's proving to be.
Maybe it's time for fans and bloggers (hi, John Fontana... Oh, wait, that's me) to admit to themselves that Tom Jones at the St. Pete Tampa Bay Times was right, and the overachieving Bolts are on the decline because... well, they overachieved in 2010-11? That's not a long-term assessment for the club, that's an assessment of the 2011-12 season.
Yeah, Tom, you nailed it. But your follow-up story about what's wrong with the Lightning has fanned the flames: Everything is wrong. Nothing is right.
But then again, in a way, it's true.
Step back everyone. Stop looking at winless-in-seven, stop looking at the 2011-12 Tampa Bay Lightning season. Take a look at the grander picture of the Lightning (past, present, and future).
If you don't know the Lightning's recent history from the past decade, besides a Stanley Cup Championship and some ownership alterations, let me try to explain it: The Bolts were built to contend after a defined core of players was assembled. The team was also run as a business, and in order to have more money for the NHL team, player development took a back seat.
When the team started falling apart, via free-agent departures and other personnel issues, there were no quality reinforcements to promote from the AHL. The draft classes from 1999-2007 were a hodgepodge of mediocrity with few exceptions.
In other words, the team was either going to sink or swim any given season, while expecting a top-heavy offensive lineup to make up for defensive lapses and goaltending inconsistency.
Sound familiar? The state of the team from post-lockout seasons is the same as it is now. The difference being Steve Yzerman isn't focusing on single-season contention while trying desperately to find more money to allocate to payroll at the NHL level. He's not neglecting the development of players in the Lightning system, or making assets (players, draft picks) expendable for momentary gain. Tomorrow is going to be just as important as today, so to plan for it makes sense.
Yet, Lightning fans want change. After four years of constant change (be it ownership, management, roster turnover, or other developments with the franchise) it's outright expected. Never mind the changes of the 2008 off-season (the binge signings by OK Hockey) were ill-advised, ill-planned, impulsive moves that backfired. Never mind that former GM Brian Lawton and current GM Yzerman had and have been trying to clean up that mess since.
Change, it seems, is considered the status-quo.
Like it or not, fans must realize (and the media have been trying to explain): With how the team is performing, management will not be making changes to save the season. They're planning for the long-haul, not the quick fix. A stop-gap goalie is not in the cards. Getting a top-4 defenseman is not in the plans. Neither singular move would improve things for the club anyway.
What's more likely, at this point in time, is for the Lightning to shed some of its players with high value for playoff-contending teams. While the sum of Dominic Moore, Steve Downie, Ryan Malone, Teddy Purcell, Brett Clark and Pavel Kubina are not putting the Lightning in contention, they do have the potential value in what they could bring in to the Lightning system via trade.
I don't mean an everything-must-go, wholesale clearance, fire-sale involving everyone and everything on the roster. I am suggesting that if someone offers Steve Yzerman a highly touted prospect that fits the plan in Tampa, or a top draft selection (or multiples of both) for one of the aforementioned players, he'd have to take it under serious consideration.
And while I've named names, let's go and address the 800 pound gorilla in the room: Vincent Lecavalier. Lecavalier is deemed expendable with thanks to the anchor-weight that is his 11-year contract, he's sullied as un-necessary because the Lightning have Stamkos, and his leadership is dismissed because Martin St. Louis is canonized by the team faithful as the heart-and-soul of the club.
If Vinny is as expendable as the jeering mob makes him, then I guess I should remind fans that St. Louis is older, has a contract that will continue to pay him well when his production numbers dwindle with age, and has a reputation that would make him a highly sought-after commodity on the trade market for teams looking for a final piece to the puzzle.
If Lecavalier should be traded from a losing team for the sake of youth and clearing cap room, then Marty is expendable too.
But I don't want either of them traded. It's ridiculous to insinuate one-for-the-other interchangeability of leadership and value; it's a panic induced self-loathing that has fans lusting for something that shows the Lightning are serious about their intentions for contention in the immediate future, and repeated contention in the future.
And, yet, by not knee-jerk reacting to the woes of the moment, by not conducting the fire sale, by not purging everything deemed a malignancy in the eyes of anxious, panic-stricken fans, by upholding to the long-term plan, they are showing how serious they are about things (long term and short-term).
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this line pretty much sums it up
Really, this is “Stammergeddon” all over again.
Agree with almost all of the discussion of what’s likely to go down.
Think you tried to go too far in making your point on Vinny. Marty’s contract is nowhere near as bad, his proven production is better, and is heart-and-soul-ness is. . . heart-and-soul-ness. I think Vinny is tradable for the right offer, but I don’t really want to see him gone, and the chances of that offer are so small that the discussion is really academic. While there is a jeering mob that’s being ridiculous (saying Vinny is unnecessary is ridiculous), there’s a more measured opinion that will still listen to offers.
And finally, I really think last year’s overachievement is overblown. Just because you fall significantly with the same cast of characters doesn’t mean that you were previously overachieving. It could mean that all your characters got old. Or got injured. Or at least a select few of them did. And that’s what I see as having happened here. Mixed with some underachievement on special teams.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 16, 2012 6:31 PM EST reply actions
Jay, do you know the rules to a 35+ contract?
Under various circumstances, Marty’s contract can be seen as more potential dead-weight than Vinny’s.
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 16, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
no, if there's a relevant difference with Marty's contract, I missed it
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 16, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
The differences are the terms of the deal (Vinny’s contract is frontloaded, Marty’s is consistent) and players age (which effects the contract under the CBA). Marty is over the age of 35, and that invokes a stipulation or two that says the money stays on teh cap no matter what the player’s status is.
I don’’t have the exact rules, but I do remember hearing about it in recent years from other teams.
But if you’re looking at the contract in a “Does it last forever?” comparison, you’re right, the two deals are dissimilar.
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 16, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
Relevant rule
Players who sign multi-year contracts when they are age 35 or older (calculated on June 30 of the season the contract begins) count toward the cap under all circumstances, regardless of where (or if) the player is playing. The only cap relief is $100,000 from the player’s cap hit if he is assigned to the minors after the first year of the contract.
CBA reference: Section 50.5 (d-i-B-5) (P. 203)
If St. Louis retires tomorrow, the team still has his cap hit until the contract expires. Three and a half years left on a $5.6m/year deal coupled with his NMC makes moving it extremely difficult, even for a player of his caliber.
ah, gotcha
yeah, then I could definitely see how that contract could be more of a weight. Although I have some degree of faith in Marty being able until he hits 39 or 40.
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
I’m with you. He’s playing at a high level even still and will probably be able to maintain it for a few more years. Even if he does drop off statistically, he’s still probably going to be an above average player on the ice, and I’d think still very important off the ice.
Personally, it’s not a contract I’d move even if it weren’t a difficult one to.
I don't read it that way.
Section 50.5 is talking about the current year only. It is true that “if Marty retires tomorrow, the team still has his cap hit.”
But it is not correct that the cap hit continues for the life of the contract.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
In other words, if Marty retires before tonight’s game the Bolts would carry his cap hit for the rest of the year. However, next year, his contract is off the books and Marty’s contract’s cap hit is gone.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
It is talking about how to calculate the team’s salary cap hit for the current year, but it specifically states that part of the calculation is:
(5) All Player Salary and Bonuses earned in a League Year by a Player who is in the second or later year of a multi-year SPC which was signed when the player was 35 or older…but which player is not on the Club’s Active Roster, Injured Reserve, Injured Non Roster or Non Roster, and regardless of whether, or where, the Player is playing, except to the extent the Player is playing under his SPC in the minor leagues, in which case only the Player Salary and Bonuses in excess of $100,000 shall count toward the calculation of Averaged Club Salary
Emphasis mine.
So even though it describes how to calculate the cap hit for one year, it explains that 35+ contracts are to be included in the calculation every year for the life of the contract regardless of whether or not the player is playing.
That’s why we can all laugh at the Flyers for trying to circumvent the salary cap with Pronger’s contract and mistakenly signing him to a 35+ contract that will still be around even after he’s gone.
Holy crap
I hadn’t read it that way before.
Makes you wonder why GMs sign 35+ year-old players to multi-year deals.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
In Marty’s case, he was in the drivers seat. He wanted stability, he also wanted a reward for being a good soldier for so long to this team.
Yzerman had two choices starting out – retool, or rebuild (and blow up the top-heavy lineup). You gotta think that his meeting with St. Louis helped him determine that he was better off keeping the team intact.
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 19, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t mean Marty’s contract, per se—I guess I was wondering more about Pronger’s.
I am glad, though, that Ohlund signed his deal before his was 35. Otherwise, the Bolts would be scr3wed.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
Can I tell people I wrote this article?
It says everything I’ve been wanting to say.
I guess that would be wrong, wouldn’t it?
R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
"You don’t motivate people; you activate something in them that already exists." -Guy Boucher
by CAustin on Jan 16, 2012 7:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Nice post, John
Following the Lightning from Rio Grande, Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil.
Let's. Go. BOLTS!
by Rafael Amarante on Jan 16, 2012 10:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely agree—well done, Mr Fontana!
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
by MTBoltFan on Jan 17, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks, MT
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 17, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you, Raf
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 17, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
Trade Deadline
Unfortunately I don’t think that we are going to be able to unload anybody from our roster that we should unload. There are 4 players that I would not mind seeing gone. 1. Vinny, 2. Downie, 3. Roloson 4. Kubina (want him back though)
Vinny’s contract is impossible. No one is going to want Vinny and that contract, and really, who are we going to get to fill in his offense? Now if there is a team with an absolute stud ready to play next year, and they need Vinny, you have to make the deal, but unless we get a top line guy, we are stuck with him until his production wanes.
Downie needs to go IMO. This guy plays out of control and becomes a target of the refs. He has the worst +/- and he makes so many dumb penalties that put the team in trouble, that I really hate watching him. He is a poor man’s Sean Avery. Trade him for anything.
Roloson? No value, we should just cut him at this point and bring up a kid. If we can trade him for some sticks, we should do it.
Kubina. He is a UFA, I still like him since he is a big body and will actually clear the zone. I would love to trade him, get something for him, then re-sign him next year…
So basically those are the 4 guys I would love to move, but unfortunately there isn’t much value there. We are caught with a team that doesn’t have many valuable pieces to move, Yzerman has a tough job going forward… Hopefully the farm system can restock quickly…while we try and pluck something from the free agent market next year.
I think we see things a bit differently
while I’m all aboard the “trade Vinny if the right deal came along” bandwagon, I very far from want him gone. I want him to finish his career in Tampa. Just, by choice about when his production starts waning, not when his contract ends.
And Kubina is just getting too old. His usefulness drops each year, and as frustrating as this year is, I’d like to throw his money at anybody else and see if they can be less frustrating
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 8:10 AM EST up reply actions
I very far from want him gone. I want him to finish his career in Tampa. Just, by choice about when his production starts waning, not when his contract ends.
This is the way I think too.
Following the Lightning from Rio Grande, Rio Grande do Sul, Brasil.
Let's. Go. BOLTS!
by Rafael Amarante on Jan 17, 2012 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
Kubina has no speed. The only thing that saves him is his defensive awareness. The ability to read the play defensively keeps him from being burned too many times. It’s the epitome of irony that his best defensive plays this year are when he’s flat on the ice, blocking passes.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
Whoa, whoa whoa
In regards to Downie…
He is a poor man’s Sean Avery. Trade him for anything.
..What games have you been watching?? On the majority of nights, especially when it’s going really bad. Downie has been the only guy on the ice with any spark at all. Avery wishes on his best hair day, that he could come close to meaning as much as Downs does to this team. Steve is a true example of being able to change his game, well as his head, to become a valuable part of this club. Ah la, Darren McCarty. No matter what they do, can’t change the name that’s on the back of their jersey or the refs perception of that name.
Vinny… since ‘05… I’ve been pretty critical of our Captain and his play or lack of. Just seemed like after he got the Cup, he could care less. Considering what past owners have tried to do with him, can’t say I blame him. However, I think something changed when Jeff bought this team and named Yzerman as JM. As it should, for a captain of a team, when the captain becomes your GM. For example, the scrum with Malkin. While maybe not the smartest move, shows that he gives a shit. Which is more than I can say for some.
"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)
by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Jan 17, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
“Providing spark” is pretty much the only defense for Downie’s play.
Frankly, he takes dumb penalties at bad moments of the game. He’s not going to get the calls his way—he needs to realize that, and adjust his play accordingly. He’s got the skill to play—just not the discipline he needs to be effective.
Trade him for anything the team can get.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
I disagree. I still see the flashes of what Downie could be. Keep in mind that he’s only 24. Does he need to get it together? Absolutely. But it’s far too early to say that he’ll never get it together or that his contract is too costly.
Of course if a trade came along that gave the team something it needs, Downie’s certainly got to be on the table.
R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
"You don’t motivate people; you activate something in them that already exists." -Guy Boucher
agree on all counts
If I cared more about my UNC side, I'd call myself "Tar Volon," and that'd be awesome.
Bolts, Canes, Preds (now in different conferences!). Canes mini-STH. Southern hockey solidarity
Rocky Top Talk
by Incipient_Senescence on Jan 17, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
My problem with Downie is that he too willingly goes to the aggitator role. Flashes of brilliance? Hell, yes. Bullseye on his back with the Zebras? Hell, yes.
He reminds me of Darcy Tucker, but Tucker had less baggage when he played in Tampa. Downie had a bad rep when he was acquired. Tucker had ability, but became expednable and played more of the nuisance role when traded to Toronto (to praise, at first, and then league-wide disdain later).
Is he being asked to be the pest? That’s one thing. If his emotions are what guides him into that role – even when he is on scoring lines – it’s another. My perception is the latter – he goes over-the-top too easily. That’s my opinion, though.
Do I want to see him excel? Hell, yes. I also want to see him cut the shit and play hockey.
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 17, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
He will never cut the crap and just play hockey. That aspect of his game will probably diminish over time, but he’ll regress now and then. That’s just how he is.
"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jan 17, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
I didn’t say his contract is too costly. His style of play is too costly. He’s been in the league long enough to know better. I’d take that excuse from Labrie—he’s a rookie, after all—but not someone who’s in his second contract already.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
His line has been the only consistent thing this season, period. That has to say something. If this team is to have any more success, at any time in the near future, you can bet Downie will have to be a part of it. And yes, very big point there… he’s only 24. Already he’s reaching the level of discipline and skill he needs to be an asset to this team. Spark players like him, if they last, usually don’t reach that spot till much later in their career, if at all.
Just his off-ice/season routine alone, shows that he’s more than dedicated at continuing to become the best player he can be. It was him that set the bar for Stammer’s training. Like it or not, Downie is part of the core of this team. Losing him is not going in the right direction. Really though.. trade him for anything we can get? Is that the correct approach, regardless of who the player is? Far from it.
"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)
by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Jan 17, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Perhaps my wording could have been better, but all teams try to get the most they can get out of a player in a trade. I expect the return for Downie would be minimal, so I worded it perhaps too pessimistically.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
This
What the Bolts need is for the fan base to take a proverbial chill pill and quit with the foaming-mouthed panic.
And… if we even begin to even think about trading Marty, this team was dead before it hit the water(ice).
"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)
by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Jan 17, 2012 9:39 AM EST reply actions
It’s not just local media fanning the flames. Ken Campbell of THN (yeah, I know, it’s Ken Campbell so everything should be taken with a hefty dose of salt) poured some gas on the fire with this column.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
Erlendsson tricked me into giving that moronic blowhard a click to his stats yesterday. I refuse to do it again knowing who wrote it. I keep hoping enough people will ignore him that he’ll go away.
But Mike Corcoran did his weekly rant on that article yesterday. The podcast may not be up yet. It was entertaining.
R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
"You don’t motivate people; you activate something in them that already exists." -Guy Boucher
That sounds fun—I’ll have to see if I can find that.
I really think Ken Campbell says a lot just to get a rise out of people. I’m mad at myself that I’ve fallen into his trap. O_o
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
What a joke..
Saw that posted over at WIIM as it heavily relates to Yzerman. What an absolute crap excuse for an article.
I’ll repeat a bit from my comment over there, in regards to the Campbell post:
I know this article is from TSN, who probably don’t know much or care, about a team in Tampa, FL. But to throw Steve Yzerman… not only a huge role in the success of the Wings but Team Canada, under the bus like that, is just plain stupid. -Me
I ended my comment with a link back to this very post. Which had already been linked in their daily “quick hits” link dump post. While I don’t agree with everything in this post 100%… it’s a much better look at what’s really going on in Tampa.
"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)
by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Jan 17, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Ken Campbell is a die-hard opponent of sunbelt hockey in any form. No team that has better weather than Toronto gets any credit from him.
R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
"You don’t motivate people; you activate something in them that already exists." -Guy Boucher
He’s a habs fan. He’s authored books on the Habs.
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 17, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
It’s Ken Campbell who said Jeff Vinik had ddubious plans for the Lightning,t hat Vincent Lecavalier had to be traded or he wouldn’t buy the team, he reported that Vinik had been rejected repeatedly by CEO’s he approached to take over the Lightning.
He has ZERO credibility when reporting on anything involving the Tampa Bay Lightning. It’s all opinion, molded to be presented as fact with sources.
In any other news publication, he’d be fired.
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 17, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Which is just plain sad.
More from my comment on WIIM:
Do writers not do research before they submit a post anymore? Is the fact that it’s printed online, instead of on paper, really make that much of a difference?
“Writers” such as this..(correct me if I’m wrong) are a huge part of why bloggers are having such trouble receiving any type of credentials and will continue to do so.
"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)
by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Jan 17, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
I think you have things mixed up, Joe. Csmpbell writes for a print publication (The Hockey News — this was NOT TSN). His audience isn’t going to bother looking up facts, they are going to tell the facts to the readers as the authoritty of hockey. They have the publication name behing them to back them up. They ARE the Hockey News.
The same can be said for Damian Cox or other big name blowhards in the Canadian (and US) media: Why fact-check? Especially when you have an opinion and the publication gives you a soapbox to use to share and popularize your opinion and present it as factual?
Bloggers who only spout opinion without facts are usually just mimicking who they have read before. Bloggers who cross reference posts (adding reference links and showing their research) are doing the same thing. But in the case o Campbell? It’s “I’ll tell you the truth that I just conjured up in my mind.”
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 17, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yep
I originally got the link from a WIIM fanshot, which had as THN in the title. Woops. Guess the same thing still applies, not sure if Campbell is Canadian or not, but still. You’d especially think those with the titles to back them up would be at the very least required to get their facts straight and how much their “opinion” should be expressed in a piece for such a title, as say The Hockey News. Does the addition of blogs over the years, really result in a growing amount of artistic license allowed in such a news source?
Speaking of THN, is it still available in actual print paper form for subscription? I remember when I was a kid my Dad having a subscription for many years. When it was more of a news paper type, than a big magazine. Seemed credible then, haha.
"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)
by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Jan 17, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
It’s still available in print. But it’s in select locations (meaning – not widely available in TB besides it’s special issues).
Campbell’s Canadian, I’m pretty sure.
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 17, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I subscribe to it
But I’ve not read anything with Campbell’s by line for quite some time.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
the blogging thing is funny. Different teams have different relationships with bloggers. The Preds fully embrace them and there are multiple credentialed bloggers in Nashville. I don’t know how it is with the Lightning, other than Clark and Cassie (and Matt, iirc) getting credentialed. There’s a lot of mutual trust involved but when it works, fans benefit from getting better coverage.
From my point of view, as a fan sitting at home, it’s tough to separate out the good from the bad sometimes—and the forum has nothing to do with the quality of the reporting.
R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
"You don’t motivate people; you activate something in them that already exists." -Guy Boucher
I was just having this discussion with the lady who writes the Theory of Ice blog over Twitter this past weekend. She was talking about how people don’t do research anymore and just spout off whatever with nothing to back it up, and that she could almost excuse the bloggers for that since it’s not their jobs. I pointed out the obvious to her: that the problem isn’t that journalists don’t do research, but that you can now see that paid, established journalists are no better at writing and research than the average blogger – despite being paid for their efforts.
"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jan 17, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
That’s a great point.
Almost along the lines of the revolution in learning that happened with the printing press. Before it, the masses had very little access to the resources of the scholars, and therefore had to accept their knowledge carte blanche.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
Exactly. My point stopped her dead in her tracks. Up until then, she was thinking that journalism was lacking and in decline. In reality, journalism has always been lacking – there was just nothing to compare it with before. The declining bit is up for interpretation, as always.
"You don't have enough talent to win on talent alone." -Herb Brooks
Raw Charge, an SBN Tampa Bay Lightning community. Follow me on Twitter: @dagmar27.
by Cassie McClellan on Jan 17, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
You know, the editor is also at fault?
I mean, same thing – having a wider number of writers exposes complacency.by the guys who allow journalists to write things that aren’t researched.
Typing is an adventure, and reading should be, too!
Sasquatch, Yeti, The Loch Ness Monster, Evan Oberg - legends that may or may not be real
Raw Charge.
by John Fontana on Jan 17, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
IF Marty asked to be traded
I’d say he’s earned that right. Otherwise, he’s of more use to the team than 99% of the players in the NHL could hope to be. I’ll stick by him in Tampa Bay as long as he wants to be in Tampa Bay.
R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
"You don’t motivate people; you activate something in them that already exists." -Guy Boucher
Exactly.
After all, it was Tampa who gave Marty his first real shot. Losing him, would literally, tear the heart out of this organization.
"WINGnut--BOLThead"
Let's GO..Wings, Tigers, Lions, Wolverines (oh my!) & Bolts!!!! (RIP Cory Smoot aka Flattus Maximus of GWAR)
by Let's JOE WINGS-BOLTS on Jan 17, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Brilliant piece John
In my opinion, your best ever. Let there be no doubt that Campbell is a hack, even the Canadian fans hate him. We needed to trade for a goaltender and defensive help in mid-December at which time cost is prohibitive. Yzerman is fully aware of all this and took a calculated risk. Paramount to me now is that Norfolk has a really good chance at going on a deep playoff run themselves which would be huge in the development process for our players. I think whatever moves Yzerman makes he’ll be mindful of that so as not to disrupt the team chemistry in Norfolk any more than necessary. I agree with all the players you mentioned Yzerman should consider trading and would add Bergeron to the mix as well, just because his niche talents could provide a better than expected return. I see Barberio as his potential replacement anyway, but that may be a stretch at this point. I encourage everyone to go to www.hobeybaker.com and cast your vote for Alex Killorn who is averaging over a point per game in the tough hockey east on an inferior team. Marty may very well ask for a trade and the Rangers and Tortorella would love to have him alongside Ritchie and Fedotenko. It could be taylor made for Marty as I believe he resides in Connecticut during the off-season. One of Tim Erixon or Dylan Mcilrath + would need to come the other way but it could be good for both teams. The Leafs and Canucks are both looking for a power forward but I’ve read from Matthew Barry on Hockeybuzz that Malone refused to waive his NMC to go to the Kings. Yzerman should be patient, let a few pieces drop first, until the return get’s better. As much as Vinny’s habit of overextending his shift in the offensive zone and then coasting to the bench as the puck goes the other way, infuriates me, it’s not easy to replace the 30 goals, physical presence and ability to amp up his game that V4 posesses. I love Downs but he’s been a step slow all year and I wonder if the high ankle sprain at the end of last season left some permanent damage, I still think Yzerman should keep abreast of the situation in Nashville where they are unlikely to be able to resign both Weber and Suter. Either one would instantly become our top defenseman. Perhaps a package with Brewer/Kubina and Purcell/Downie would be enough to land Suter. If the decide to keep Suter and peddle Weber we’re out of the running unless they’d take Lecavalier.
Don in St Pete
When Hedman comes back, and after the NHL season for the Bolts, Yzerman should send Hedman to Norfolk for defensive help during their playoff games. He’s on a two-way contract, after all (all ELCs are). I bet Tik would appreciate the help. :-)
It’ll never happen, but fun to think about.
Kubina’s not going anywhere, unfortunately. He’s a UFA at the end of the year, and has shown nothing to warrant potential playoff teams seeking to get him on their team, even as a rental.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
Suter dreams….sorry but I can’t get on board with giving away a veteran d-man and a good young 3rd line forward with potential to improve significantly to get six weeks worth of Ryan Suter. That’s a move you make if you are planning for a deep playoff run, not rebuilding over the next several years. And NO, the Tampa Bay Lightning don’t have a great chance of convincing Suter that they’re his ticket to the Cup. If he’s too impatient to wait for Nashville, he’s too impatient to wait for Tampa.
R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
"You don’t motivate people; you activate something in them that already exists." -Guy Boucher
From Eliotte Friedman yesterday
21. Steve Yzerman is taking some criticism for not dealing with his goaltender issues. Think you have to look at the big picture. Tampa overachieved last season. That’s not to say the Lightning didn’t deserve its success, just that it came quicker than expected. It’s not unusual for teams in that position to fall back. But, it makes no sense to trade your best assets unless you’re really going to address the long-term goaltending/defence problems. He’s got to be smart about this, because it’s a move that will determine the on-ice future of his franchise. A bad trade will be devastating to the franchise.
22. Do think Tampa might’ve tried Antero Niittymaki as a short-term fix if it wasn’t for concerns about his hip.
R.I.P. Belak, Rypien, Boogaard, Lokomotiv.
"You don’t motivate people; you activate something in them that already exists." -Guy Boucher
I like Friedman’s “30 Things” columns.
"Freedom is the freedom to say two plus two equals four. If that is granted all else will follow."
- Smith in Orwell's 1984
by MTBoltFan on Jan 18, 2012 11:13 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
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